farsight vs DA @ 1k

[Pyro X]

So I played my game today vs farsight and I really don't think I could have won regardless of what I took.

I Doubt I will ever see as much cheese as what this list had. I'm not faulting the guy for running it because it is a league

and you should play what wins but how do the codex writers find this to be balanced?

 

I took ravenwing because I felt it gave me the best chances to deal with riptides because I thought that would be the

thing to worry about, that was an understatement.

 

His list had allied with codex tau and had 2 riptides (1 was an IC), some commander dude that let him ignore all cover on his

shooting turn and have split fire without a LD test, 2 T 6 2+ save missle drones, and another crisis suit HQ all in 1 freaking squad.

thats 22 wounds @ T6. he had 2 squads of crisis suits (1 squad of 1 and a squad of 3) without weapons? (lame) and a squad

of kroot without upgrades.

 

Granted, my dice boned me from turn 1 not that it would have mattered from what I felt.

Turn 1 I evaded all LOS and he didn't fire a shoot, and on my turn I lost 2 bikes to def terrain tests.

 

Turn 2 he pulls out a lazer pointer and sees 1/2 a tire on 1 bike and drops 2 templates on it killing 6 bikes (no cover or armor saves) making 1 break off the board giving 1st blood.

 

I'd finish the rest but it just goes to crap after that. from 25 bikes losing 6 from 1 shot and another 3 from the split fire and 2 from my own failed test I'm now at now at 15 counting samael.

 

I had a dakka banner and when I finally got a chance to use it, (only 2 times in the game) it was with only 5 bikes.

 

any thoughts short of having a full grey knights on how to kill this deathstar unit?

 

 

[elmo]

I guess that the IC Riptide was R'varna which is considered OP even by tau players. Did you have it's rules explained to you? It is a FW model with experimental rules and as such needs your permission to play. It is an MC and not an IC. Basically it is just an up armoured/ weaponed riptide but with no jetpack.

 

Your best bet on a farsight list would be plenty of hs weapons as there will be loads of suits as farsight allows you to have them as troops. Kill the suits and the rest should follow, not that this will be too easy:(

[Pyro X]

Are you sure that's the only way he could have done that? Because FW stuff is banned from our league. He had a riptide that "can hand more than one" model in it so that's how it can have more ic join in and adding to the cheese.

[Gentlemanloser]

It's the Farsight Enclaves Riptide, not the FW one.

[Pyro X]

Its still beyond lame. I really thought of just selling all my Warhammer stuff its that retardedly OP. Why am I even wasting time with this and paying way too much if I can't even enjoy a game because some jerk has to do bull:cuss like that.

[elmo]

If it was the farsight one that would make more sense :)

 

Don't forget the first rule of playing "it should be fun" but playing against power gamers seldom is. Maybe you should stick to friendly games rather than binning your hobby.

 

I tend to go through phases with playing but I enjoy the modeling side more than the actual gaming.

[facmanpob]

Sounds like he was running O'Vesa and a second Riptide, which means that he MUST have taken Commander Farsight....

 

If he was running O'Vesa, 2 shielded missile drones and a second riptide, plus Farsight and an XV8 Commander, that's about 800 points all together.... doesn't leave him much for troops.... my plan would be to slaughter his troops and then run away! I'd ask to see his list next time you see him so you can check the points and its legality...

 

...as an aside... anyone else think its a good idea to take a photo of your opponent's list on your phone after the game so that you can check it at your leisure to see if you've been cheated?

[Master Avoghai]

Well pics may help but there are some options that won't appear (after all seeing 2 riptides, I can think that's 2 filled HS slots)

 

The opponents and locations where are regularly play have not this kind of problem. Everybody carefully read his codex before making a list and actually ask if there's a doubt.

[[TA]Typher]

200 pts for troops? That's like 180 fire warriors.

 

Sorry you had a crappy game man. Depending on the list, I find most tau games tend to be bleh. Add forgeworld and allies and it gets worse.

 

Overall if you're not having fun don't play with them.

[march10k]

He had crisis suits with no weapons? It's possible, but I don't see his it saves enough points to make it a good idea. The laser pointer tire thing is totally not in the spirit of the game, but it was competitive, not friendly play.

 

I would have had a field day. It sounds like he had squat that could threaten a crusader...so I'd just drive straight at the riptides and hit them with thunder hammers and smite them with knights. Hell, the PDG Libby wouldn't even be needed! His is a BS list, but I'm rock to his scissors.

[Biggabertha]

Geez, that really sucks to hear: especially with the laser pointer at HALF a tyre!! Dropping six bikes in one go just... Ouch...

 

 

Personally, I think it'd be a really good idea to take a photo of your opponent's list after a game. It may be sour grapes to some but when you lose to a power gamer that feels like they're bending the light in their favour... well, I just wish there was a judge or so on hand to check over such things (like in Magic: the Gathering)

[Master Avoghai]

Geez, that really sucks to hear: especially with the laser pointer at HALF a tyre!! Dropping six bikes in one go just... Ouch...

For that I think that Pyro X has a responsibility.

 

Even in competitive environment, if the purpose of my movement is to hide my bikes, then I ask my opponent if he has any LoS and correct the final position before moving another unit.

 

This game is not about hiding anything you plan and revealing your vicious stratagem at the final turn with a sardonic laugh...

It's a game about mutual agreement for every discussable step. Particularly in v6 that allows checking before taking a decision : you no longer estimate shooting or assault range you measure them before choosing to proceed.

 

Because after all... what do you think your opponent will expect by seeing you packing all your models behind a wall other than not having LoS?

[Pyro X]

I setup everything and checked, knowing his movement, as if they wasn't going to get shot at. he could only is 1/4 of 1 tired and thats where 2 pie plates landed killing 6 bikes and making the squad take a break check and ran off the board.

[imustbedreamin]

back to playing just for beer and fun is what i would be doing mate.

 

once things start getting stupidly serious like you describe then its not a hobby anymore imo.

[SvenONE]

The laser pointer thing is a real drag.  I mean come on, a guy who unapologetically paid the bare minimum for the troops he needed, and he's going to nickel and dime you about a piece of vision.  But hey, that's how that codex works (still written by the same author!)

 

That's a list that exists to do 1 thing, blow you off the table and completely ignore objectives.  Again as others have said, a league game is supposed to be competitive so it's going to bring lists out like this.

 

In the long run, this guy will have a reputation for this and local store justice will prevail.  It's going to probably be hard for him to find games.

[Pyro X]

you the thing I think that annoys be beyond anything else, was his army looked amazing but he didn't paint 1 dam model. I didn't know this till today but he had been to ard boys and the like a few times so I don't feel as bad as I did yesterday. I wanna go up vs him in 2k points and I promise he'd have alot harder time, cheese or not. If he wants to follow the letter of the rules I'll be more than happy to bring a D weapon and call it a day.

[SvenONE]

No PAINT!>????

 

Honestly, I bet if there was a poll of "the most common unpainted army" I bet Tau would be up there.  I don't know whether it's the fact in 5th they weren't as popular and now they are.  But if I had to say the most universally unpainted army? (I consider primed unpainted, it's primer, not paint) Tau hands down.

 

Fair warning at a 2K challenge, if this is the list he'd bring for 1K, he's probably the type of guy who runs FE with 5 riptides at 2K with a bunch of broadsides and 2 squads of 6 fire warriors sitting out of LOS somewhere trying not to be shot.

[Pyro X]

No it was painted. He played someone to pro paint it. He.painted.nothing at all.

[SvenONE]

Ahhhh, well, that's a power gamer if I ever saw one.

[Pyro X]

another thing thats kinda BS is the shop we play at wants to not allow the new books for superheavies and stuff. how else is that god unit going to die? how do they beat it in ARD boys?

[facmanpob]

how else is that god unit going to die?

It's T6 yes? So that's T5 once some rad grenades have got to it.... S10 blasts will double stuff out..... so I would load up on Black Knights and Vindicators as one option.

 

The other thing to remember is that Tau have a hard time dealing with AV14. Their best option is Longstrike's Hammerhead, or failing that its deep striking Fusion Blaster Crisis suits. Your opponent appeared to bring neither to the table. As March10K said earlier, his Deathwing running around in Land Raider Crusaders would have had a lot of fun...

[march10k]

 

how else is that god unit going to die?

It's T6 yes? So that's T5 once some rad grenades have got to it.... S10 blasts will double stuff out..... so I would load up on Black Knights and Vindicators as one option.The other thing to remember is that Tau have a hard time dealing with AV14. Their best option is Longstrike's Hammerhead, or failing that its deep striking Fusion Blaster Crisis suits. Your opponent appeared to bring neither to the table. As March10K said earlier, his Deathwing running around in Land Raider Crusaders would have had a lot of fun...

I love the rad grenade plus vindicator idea!

 

Seriously, though. Four thunderhammers/fists, plus five smiting knights, on the charge? How many T6 wounds does that kill? Typher? Would you mind running the numbers? Whatever the outcome, the fact that he can't stop you from charging his glob o cheese with it's nemesis (said nemesis being any AP2 melee weapon that wounds T6 on 2+) on turn two...he's got an AYEIOB list, and DA has the ideal counter to it.

[facmanpob]

Running some numbers on the Black Knights option.... (warning, very rough calculations....)

 

6 BK with 4 plasma talons and 2 RWGL + 5 DWK on the charge.....

 

Fire your RWGLs.... hits! (Seriously, can you envisage a situation where your blast markers don't land on the enemy with that many large bases?!)

4 Talons in rapid fire range = 8 shots.... BS4 TL ~ 7 hits..... S7 vs T5, wounds on 2+ ~ 6 wounds....

 

Now, if your opponent has any sense, he took O'Vesa in his Deathstar, and tanked with him... As an IC he can Look Out! Sir on a 2+. The sensible thing would be to offload spare wounds onto the other Riptide, preserving the shielded missile drones to ensure majority T6 in the unit and also not forcing a morale check. So the Plasma Talons would get about 4 wounds through the 5++ invulnerable save of the Riptides (say 2 on each Riptide). Tanking with the XV8 Commanders would not be a good idea against plasma unless he give it a shield generator for the invulnerable save.

 

Next, you charge the Deathstar with 5 DWK with smite mode activated. Ignoring overwatch for a moment (as to be fair, Riptides with Ion Accelerators aren't actually very good at overwatch), you get to charge in and will end up in base contact with the Riptides as they are doing the tanking. So your DWK are WS5 against riptides with WS2 (or 1 if it is O'Vesa).

 

1 Flail of the Unforgiven on the charge gives 4 attacks hitting on 3+ ~ 2 or 3 hits, wounding on a 3+ ~ 1 or 2 wounds against an armour save of 2+....meh!

 

4 Maces of Absolution on the charge gives 12 attacks (Hammer of Wrath probably won't do anything!) hitting on 3+ ~ 8 hits, wounding on 2+ ~ 6 or 7 wounds at AP2, against a 5++ or 4++ invulnerable save. So roughly half of those wounds will get through ~ 3 or 4. But here's the kicker, each of those wounds will double out an enemy unit, as he has been reduced to T5 by the rad grenades....

 

So a deathstar consisting of 6 models (2 XV8 Commanders, 2 Riptides, 2 shielded missile drones) will have lost half of its number after 1 combat round with the DWK.....

 

And we haven't even taken into account the Rending Corvus hammers of the charging RWBK either.... 6 BK on the charge get 24 attacks... if the attacks can be directed against the Riptides that would equate to approx 16 hits, each wounding on a 4+... 8 wounds, of which 1 or 2 will probably be a Rend. Of the other 6, you could expect armour save 1 failure.... so we are looking at a couple more unsaved wounds, which may take down another model.

 

 

 

tl; dr - Overall, the deathstar unit is probably going to have lost 3 or 4 models, and is then going to be held up in a combat it has no chance of winning for the rest of the game. The Black Knights can Hit & Run at the end of the enemy assault phase, allowing them to go and hunt the rest of the enemy army.... meanwhile, your troops are sitting high and dry on your home objectives, pointing and laughing...

[march10k]

Fantastic scenario, but I was asking about a charge from a unit of DWK plus a unit with 4 thunderhammers/fists and a DW sergeant

[facmanpob]

Fantastic scenario, but I was asking about a charge from a unit of DWK plus a unit with 4 thunderhammers/fists and a DW sergeant

I know, haven't got round to doing those number yet, as I wanted to see how the reduction to T5 helped the DWK.

Will try to run the "hammer-time" scenario numbers in a little while (got to get a coffee first, work is busy this morning!)