Aralon56 Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 In the HH we have come across a few space wolfs been sent to observe primarchs and if necessary take care off them but can ordinary space wolfs with out the help of Russ kill a primarch? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 A Primarch? I think you mean "All the Primarchs" wolf brother! Why do think the Emperor chose the Wolves to be his wolfing Executioners and wolfing kill the Lost Legions? Because they're just that wolfing awesome, that's why. Look at Prospero Burns, when a single Wolf cuts off Chaos Horus's arm. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/#findComment-3548467 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karthak Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 In the HH we have come across a few space wolfs been sent to observe primarchs and if necessary take care off them but can ordinary space wolfs with out the help of Russ kill a primarch? Well, the first pack we saw ended up biting it in a most inglorious fashion on Signus Prime, and the second got tossed around by Curze as if it was light cardio. So...nope. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/#findComment-3548468 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Lucian Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Pretty much waste of wolves to send them on guard duty like that. Every primarch can beat up a squad of wolves... not to mention that said primarch's bodyguard would smack them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/#findComment-3548474 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Well, Guilliman might have a hard time against them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/#findComment-3548480 Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpediem Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Well, Guilliman might have a hard time against them. Guilliman: Faffnar Bludbroder, do you really think that your pack can take me down? Faffnar: Perhaps not. You are Jarl Guilliman and your prowess is the stuff of legend. But we have our duty, and we would try. If you were, say, without your bodyguard and cornered in a room with us— Guilliman: My dear Faffnar, then you would be cornered in a room with me. My money's on the Primarch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/#findComment-3548487 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 One armed Chaos Horus. You remember him, guy that beat the Emperor into a ten thousand year coma? A squad of Wolves killed him on Prospero. That's all I'm saying. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/#findComment-3548488 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karthak Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 One armed Chaos Horus. You remember him, guy that beat the Emperor into a ten thousand year coma? A squad of Wolves killed him on Prospero. That's all I'm saying. A squad of Wolves, plus a couple of Dreadnoughts, a Rune Priest, and a ton of Sisters of Silence. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/#findComment-3548489 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Naah. Guilliman would use his taktikul monologue forcer on the wolves and it would turn into a long drawn out speech so that girlyman can do some logistics and rip out their beards Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/#findComment-3548496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Guilliman with a marble bust killed ten Alpha Legionaires who caught him by surprise and were using anti-Asartes bolt rounds. Ten Space Wolves with axes? Well, as someone else pointe out, even Curze could toss them around like a light cardio and he's te Primarch no one sees as a fighter. Besides Lorgar. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/#findComment-3548504 Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpediem Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Yes, I seem to remember Magnus the Red scattering Space Wolves like bowling pins at Prospero. Canonically I'm fairly certain that the only confirmed way to kill a Primarch is with either another Primarch or the Emperor (or a Callidus assassin, but that was basically suicide by cop). Orbital saturation bombing might work, but if it didn't you'd be on the recieving end of a lot of hurt. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/#findComment-3548511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Lorgar and Angron would have been Titaned to death on Armatura if "Ember Queen" hadn't shown up, and Lorgar tells Angron the Wolves would have ended him on Ghenna if Russ gave the order (although that was a lot more than a squad) The Iron Hands & Iron Warriors in Angel Exterminatus did seem to think blowing up Sisypheum with Perturabo aboard would do the IV Primarch in. Not to mention the death of Rogal Dorn in the First Black Crusade. It is possible for non Primarchs to take down a Primarch. Not easy, but possible. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/#findComment-3548519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kais Klip Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 The packs (might as well) Russ sent on "guard duty" were similar to what the Emperor did with the Custodes; both parties knew it was a one way trip should the worst go down. Their purpose was nothing more than a confirmation of guilt; while the Emperor could not prove that Lorgar partook in a heathen ritual upon Cadia, he could prove that a Custodes was lost, warranting a follow up. This isn't as much an issue for the Emperor as it is for Russ; for the former it is merely a placative gesture for an escalation order from an all-authoritative figure, for the latter it is an excuse to overstep one's tasking parameters (night of the wolf). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/#findComment-3548521 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 The packs couldnt have done it. They would have needed 2 or 3 squads easily. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/#findComment-3548532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Or a decent shooting gallery with explosive rounds that could tear apart Astartes like paper in a wood chipper. Or sorceryrunecastings. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/#findComment-3548535 Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpediem Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Lorgar and Angron would have been Titaned to death on Armatura if "Ember Queen" hadn't shown up, and Lorgar tells Angron the Wolves would have ended him on Ghenna if Russ gave the order (although that was a lot more than a squad) The Iron Hands & Iron Warriors in Angel Exterminatus did seem to think blowing up Sisypheum with Perturabo aboard would do the IV Primarch in. Not to mention the death of Rogal Dorn in the First Black Crusade. It is possible for non Primarchs to take down a Primarch. Not easy, but possible. Alas, never actually managed to read the HH books (Heresy, I know), hence unaware of these incidents (other than the Rogal Dorn one, but I'm at least partially in the group that thinks he might still be kicking). What would be nice would be if GW would give us approximate Primarch stats, so that we can fix the 'who'd win a fight arguments' once and for all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/#findComment-3548546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karthak Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Lorgar and Angron would have been Titaned to death on Armatura if "Ember Queen" hadn't shown up, and Lorgar tells Angron the Wolves would have ended him on Ghenna if Russ gave the order (although that was a lot more than a squad) The Iron Hands & Iron Warriors in Angel Exterminatus did seem to think blowing up Sisypheum with Perturabo aboard would do the IV Primarch in. Not to mention the death of Rogal Dorn in the First Black Crusade. It is possible for non Primarchs to take down a Primarch. Not easy, but possible. Alas, never actually managed to read the HH books (Heresy, I know), hence unaware of these incidents (other than the Rogal Dorn one, but I'm at least partially in the group that thinks he might still be kicking). What would be nice would be if GW would give us approximate Primarch stats, so that we can fix the 'who'd win a fight arguments' once and for all. http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/6th_Edition_Tactics/Space_Marines/Legion_List Forge World has been giving the Primarchs stats for a while, now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/#findComment-3548561 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 There is no victory for such arguments. It's a loss for everyone involved. Giving our dads stats isn't going to stop, or make any better, arguments stemming from "My dad can beat up your dad." As for the topic at hand, with extenuating circumstances it is possible a squad of any Legion could take down a Primarch, though Guilliman proved that you can disadvantage a Primarch, and give the Astartes all the advantages, and still survive the ordeal. But I think Kais Klip has the right of it, that ending the Primarch isn't their true purpose. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/#findComment-3548566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 It sends a message out to everyone; "you are not above suspicion and are being watched" whilst also demonstrating the Emperor is never far away. In the right circumstances a Primarch can be felled by a pack of Space Wolves, but it isn't a safe or even outside bet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/#findComment-3548606 Share on other sites More sharing options...
godking Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 In the HH we have come across a few space wolfs been sent to observe primarchs and if necessary take care off them but can ordinary space wolfs with out the help of Russ kill a primarch?First answer No. Second answer heck No. The only way possible is to ambush an unamoured Primarch far away from his bodyguard which all Primarchs save Angron have. And even then there is only a small chance that they would be able to kill a primarch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/#findComment-3548638 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddywarcrimes Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 It sends a message out to everyone; "you are not above suspicion and are being watched" whilst also demonstrating the Emperor is never far away. In the right circumstances a Primarch can be felled by a pack of Space Wolves, but it isn't a safe or even outside bet. It was definitely an odd choice by Malcador. After confirming that 9 of the Legions had turned, he decided to randomly antagonize 3 of the remaining loyal primarchs. I'd imagine Dorn escaped having a watch pack since he's got a Custodian walking in his shadow everywhere he goes, and The Khan is supposed to rendez-vous with the whole VIth Legion at Chondax, leaving him with an angry, bloodied Russ breathing down his neck. Vulkan, Ferrus, and Corax escape suspecion by being the victims at Istvaan V. I guess that just means The Lion has managed to elude the Wolves sent to bother him. Really, on further consideration, I can only imagine that once word of Calth leaks out, Malcador is going to feel really silly about questioning Roboute's fealty. Then again, he is setting up a realistic cardboard cutout of the Imperium, so perhaps he's not as above suspicion as originally believed. Either way, the whole thing seems like the kind of hamfisted idiocy I'd expect from the Emperor rather than something Malcador would do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/#findComment-3548678 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Damned if you do, damned if you don't. While antagonizing those who remain loyal is not the best of ideas, the alternative was to allow himself to be in the dark about their true loyalties, during a time where those believed the most loyal were forsaking their oaths. While the choice of Space Wolves served to exacerbate that antagonism, they were one of very few Legions with which Malcador could still have that assurance of loyalty at the time in which he made this decision. And were likely the only one of those few readily available for such a task. Imperial Fists were dedicated wholesale to the Defense of Terra, and the elements of the Fists that did leave, alongside the Legions of the Iron Hands, Raven Guard and Salamanders were all decimated in the opening conflicts by other Legions believed to still be loyal at that time. With the Dark Angels, Ultramarines, Blood Angels and White Scars not having proven their own loyalty yet, the Space Wolves were kind of it. This doesn't mean that the others were for some insane reason "less" loyal, or even that they gave cause to the concern. Whatever Malcador's doubts, they were certainly not unfounded in light of a freaking rebellion led by the Emperor's most favored son, made even more appropriate when three of the Legions sent to stop Horus ended up fighting for him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/#findComment-3548689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clewz Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Guilliman with a marble bust killed ten Alpha Legionaires who caught him by surprise and were using anti-Asartes bolt rounds. the Alphas almost won but just had to stop a moment to twiddle their moustaches Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/#findComment-3548743 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactire Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 No way would a single pack have been able to take down a Primarch, not sure why BL put this in to the books as all it does is cause this silly "my legion v your legion" debates that we get here all the time. Also the wolves seem to be have sent before Istavaan or else why would Sanguinis have gone along with Horus's instructions to Signus Prime ?. I think they were to act more as watchers to see if the legions were complying with the Edict or to gauge reaction to Prospero, even then it would appear to be a stupid mission and makes me wonder if the order came from Horus just like the change of plans for Magnus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/#findComment-3548759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 The packs (might as well) Russ sent on "guard duty" were similar to what the Emperor did with the Custodes; both parties knew it was a one way trip should the worst go down. Their purpose was nothing more than a confirmation of guilt; while the Emperor could not prove that Lorgar partook in a heathen ritual upon Cadia, he could prove that a Custodes was lost, warranting a follow up. Exactree. I think this is actually mentioned in Fear to Tread. The Wolves were there to die, and they could be trusted to loyally go to their graves. If they died and stopped reporting in, then something was wrong. It's the equivalent of a canary down a mine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/#findComment-3548830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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