GhostMalone Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Yep that deamon Horus bull:cuss just happens to be on prospero Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/page/4/#findComment-3549666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
betrayer41 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 thank you for saving me from prospero burns again Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/page/4/#findComment-3549674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Don't you reckon the chaos forces would keep dorns body as a trophy and not leave it there Only, the traitor fleet itself was still there, licking it's wounds, when the rest of the Cadian fleet including the rest of the Imperial Fists Chapter with the Phalanx arrived. Dorn with his three Companies had merely badly crippled the fleet. And when the Imperial Fists arrived, they boarded the ship he was last fighting on to retrieve "what remained of him". If Dorn was poofed away into the warp, then he was removed by some force unrelated to the traitors of the black crusade, since they were left behind and still near Cadia. Maybe Dorn was moved by his captors to one of the still working ships and they fled with him, leaving the damaged ships behind. Maybe he was warped away by some daemonic force. But the lore did not really give any indication that any of that happened. Dorn attacked and crippled a traitor fleet. That fleet was then later found by the rest of the Imperial forces, and "what remained of Dorn" was retrieved from it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/page/4/#findComment-3549794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwatch/Grey knight Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Now that explain eveything but we should get back to topic or change the topic name Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/page/4/#findComment-3549866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwatch/Grey knight Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Wasn't it Amon on prospero I mean I know he was horus but didn't it change back to Amon I mean You would think Russ would come if it was horus daemon Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/page/4/#findComment-3549869 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 It was a daemon on Prospero pretending to be Horus, there's no way that it had the same power as Horus, which is why it was killable by the forces the Wolves had at the time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/page/4/#findComment-3549929 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Everyone knows Rogal Dorn didn't actually die. He and Sevatar became the last two unknown Grand Masters of the Grey Knights. Dorn was obviously a psyker the whole time. Between that and his giraffe neck it's the only logical outcome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/page/4/#findComment-3549951 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 From Lexi: His remains were recovered and his engraved skeletal hand is kept in stasis by his chapter.[2] Dorn's skeleton without his hands is kept within a chapel, and embedded in clear amber contoured to the body form of the Primarch himself. Dorn's skeletal fists are kept within two shrines, the bones intricately engraved with the heraldry of all the Chapter's previous Masters. Only the Chapter Master has the right to engrave his name upon the bones. Each bone corresponds to former commanders. Left hand, the first metacarpal: Lords Bronwin Abermort, Maximus Thane, Kalman Flodensbog, the first phalanx of the thumb, Ambrosian Spactor, etc.[5] Why is there any doubt at all that Dorn is dead Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/page/4/#findComment-3549970 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddywarcrimes Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Unfortunately, the new Space Marine codex directly contradicts this, stating that only Dorn's hands were recovered. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/page/4/#findComment-3550060 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 What do you guys think deserved such a fool hardy task? Did Leman assign them? If so, was it for glory or repentance? My very slight interest in the wolves has been peaked The mission was tasked by Malcador the Sigilite. It was leman trying to be the big brother to all the primarchs, I feel he is more of a line wolf type honestly amongst his sons. He just doesn't seem to have a true bond with any of them yet they all idolise him. Might want to know the BL fluff. The Wolves that did not make it to the rendezvous with the Legion prior to the razing of Prospero were later tasked with checking upon the loyalty of the other Legions by Malcador. They were spread across the galaxy and it was mentioned that the ones meeting up with the Blood Angels fleet were not the only ones doing it and they all had the super secret decoder ring of the Sigilite to authenticate their orders of "observation". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/page/4/#findComment-3550164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Acid Dog Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 The packs (might as well) Russ sent on "guard duty" were similar to what the Emperor did with the Custodes; both parties knew it was a one way trip should the worst go down. Their purpose was nothing more than a confirmation of guilt; while the Emperor could not prove that Lorgar partook in a heathen ritual upon Cadia, he could prove that a Custodes was lost, warranting a follow up. Exactree. I think this is actually mentioned in Fear to Tread. The Wolves were there to die, and they could be trusted to loyally go to their graves. If they died and stopped reporting in, then something was wrong. It's the equivalent of a canary down a mine. I don't think anyone else has mentioned it, but I'd like to reference Chris Wraight's Battle of the Fang. Considering what some of our favorite puppies were actually capable of doing in the presence of a Primarch (that is, what the presence of a primarch drove their Space Wolf physiology to do), I also like to think of the presence of the Wolves as a friendly warning: "We were made to kill you. You may strike us down, but more of us will come if you turn." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/page/4/#findComment-3550193 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I think any plan that revolves around the idea that the presence of the Space Wolves (or any other Legion) would intimidate the likes of Khan, Corax, Lion, or Guilliman is a terrible plan. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/page/4/#findComment-3550222 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilMAC25 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 The packs (might as well) Russ sent on "guard duty" were similar to what the Emperor did with the Custodes; both parties knew it was a one way trip should the worst go down. Their purpose was nothing more than a confirmation of guilt; while the Emperor could not prove that Lorgar partook in a heathen ritual upon Cadia, he could prove that a Custodes was lost, warranting a follow up. Exactree. I think this is actually mentioned in Fear to Tread. The Wolves were there to die, and they could be trusted to loyally go to their graves. If they died and stopped reporting in, then something was wrong. It's the equivalent of a canary down a mine. less postie, more writie!!! Heh, I kid, I kid. Any plans for more Grey Knights novels? Thanks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/page/4/#findComment-3550232 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonal Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 *snip* Not the proper thread, nor discussion at hand, my friend. And no need too pester the poor man, we're lucky he graces us with his presence at all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/page/4/#findComment-3550255 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 The fact that ADB has even said himself he is one of the few that take time to look through and reply to forums and sites shows he's not out there to do it as a job or for us. His work is a passion that he himself has and if anything I feel his writing is true to the vision he holds in his head which coincidentally is the vision a lot of the older gamers and hobbiests have. If anything he is the voice of the people without meaning to take the role Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/page/4/#findComment-3550266 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Guilliman would definitely not be intimidated. The wolves would defeat themselves by playing with their overgrown beards while he stabs them. Come on guys! But I fail to see the intimidation when the SW number amongst the smaller legions, are not known for extreme "tahktikul" deviancy, and seem to die in droves when faced with a real challenge (i.e. Night of the Wolf, Prospero when everyone gets their crap together, FTT the wolves get mowed down by Amit, etc) And I know that Astartes seem less phased by morale than human troops but I can imagine that getting assigned to a death mission must leave a mark on all the other remaining troops - "Oh we dont really value your lives as much as any other legion, here go watch their primarchs and try to fight them in case they get loopy" I dont see having space wolves as a deterrant or a threat, they are more of a useful warning sign, like your dog in the house that barks at the intruder before getting shot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/page/4/#findComment-3550276 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 And I know that Astartes seem less phased by morale than human troops but I can imagine that getting assigned to a death mission must leave a mark on all the other remaining troops - "Oh we dont really value your lives as much as any other legion, here go watch their primarchs and try to fight them in case they get loopy" What? Being chosen for such a task is a huge honour. And dying in a fight against a Primarch is like a guaranteed place at the large table right next to the Allfather. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/page/4/#findComment-3550284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 Legatus is right. Space Wolf morale is like Spartan morale, if you go by the hilarious movie 300. A million men couldn't grant me a good death, but a Primarch? Oh, what a glorious death that would be. Being a part of a single pack whose sole mission is to fight a Primarch to the death if that Primarch turns is only going to elicit a squee! response, suicide mission or not. They're like an entire legion of Goku from the Abridged series. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/page/4/#findComment-3550293 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 I feel their more like a legion of krillins Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/page/4/#findComment-3550296 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 How is dying fighting an enemy you have barely any chance of winning against honorable? You cant feel the laudes and honor when your dead. No wonder why Malcador chose the wolves.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/page/4/#findComment-3550298 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 What does the selfish desire to bask in glory have to do with honor? Edit: A legion of Krillins would be hilarious. A hundred thousand Marines see an explosion in the distance and as one yell, "Yahoo, not me!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/page/4/#findComment-3550304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 How is dying fighting an enemy you have barely any chance of winning against honorable? You cant feel the laudes and honor when your dead. No wonder why Malcador chose the wolves.... The code of the Wolves is to fight to the last breath for the Allfather and his Imperium. It contains no loopholes about only doing so when you know you can win. All men die, even Astartes. What matters, then, is to die well, so that what you did in life may echo in eternity. For the Wolf King! For the Aett! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/page/4/#findComment-3550310 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 What does the selfish desire to bask in glory have to do with honor? Edit: A legion of Krillins would be hilarious. A hundred thousand Marines see an explosion in the distance and as one yell, "Yahoo, not me!" What does honor have to do with the dead? They have no need of it, they're dead. Especially in a universe that doesn't believe very much in an afterlife or has expunged it through the Imperial Creed (although wolves may have one so I would cede that point to you) Honoring the dead might just be lying to oneself saying they died needlessly If you overcome such a task then it would be honorable and deserving to bask in glory. Edit: Wade says eternity is for wolves, so then honor is viable Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/page/4/#findComment-3550312 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Acid Dog Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 I think any plan that revolves around the idea that the presence of the Space Wolves (or any other Legion) would intimidate the likes of Khan, Corax, Lion, or Guilliman is a terrible plan. Intimidate? No, not quite. Any primarch with even an iota of respect for his brothers would do well to remember a war against the Wolves, being what they are, will be costly, win or lose. It was for every legion that fought them (including the World Eaters, boasting aside). The Wolves might not beat them, but they can certainly dig their teeth in and make the new traitor bleed while the Imperium figures out how to deal with them. If it's all simple numbers for any given primarch, it would probably be more cost-effective to stay with the Emperor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/page/4/#findComment-3550314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 @Depthcharge Fith/Godsmote in "Prospero Burns" says that he still believes in the Underverse/Uppland after his elevation to the Legion, and the Wolves discuss wights, spirits and such multiple times in that novel, while Magnus describes them as "a spiritual Legion, in their own stunted way" in "The First Heretic". I assume the reason they never got Monarchiaed for it was that the Wolves neither tried to convert others nor let their beliefs bog down their world conquering. @Brazentooth And why should a war with the Wolves in particular be more terrible to contemplate than one with, say, the Iron Hands or Raven Guard? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284644-space-wolfs-vs-primarchs/page/4/#findComment-3550318 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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