Space Wolfs Vs Primarchs

[Hyaenidae]

As for Sevatar:

He is a special case, what with being able to draw on the power of the shadow spirits of Nostromo.

More like, spending his youth as a orphan, freaked out about his ability to talk to crows that he's sharing his human-meals with, living on a world of sin and midnight.

Sliiiiiiiight difference.

[Kol Saresk]

As for Sevatar:

He is a special case, what with being able to draw on the power of the shadow spirits of Nostromo.

More like, spending his youth as a orphan, freaked out about his ability to talk to crows that he's sharing his human-meals with, living on a world of sin and midnight.

Sliiiiiiiight difference.

Toemaytow, tuhmahtow.

EDIT: Actually I can see Night Lords being like the cornered animal: If I am to die here, I'm at least going to take you with me just for spite.

[Legatus]

Weren't the Space Wolves squads also tasked by Malcador with checking on the other Legions because at that time he had no other Legions available?

[Kol Saresk]

Possibly. At the moment, we don't know. Although if that be the case, hilarity would have ensued if say, the Night Lords were the only Legion available.

 

"What's that? You want us to ibserve and bomb the Salamander' recruitment worlds? Well, if you say so."

[Conn Eremon]

"Monitor, I said monitor the Salamanders' recruitment worlds."

[Wade Garrett]

"Monitor, I said monitor the Salamanders' recruitment worlds."

"Have no worries, Lord Sigillite, we'll massacre every world they've so much as thought about taking iniates from."

[b1soul]

By now, I don't think anyone (other than the most rabid SW fanboy) would argue that the Wolves are superior to other marines.

 

The Wolves pretty much fit the psychological profile of good "executioners". What makes a good executioner. Ruthless, loyal, not crazy. The Night Lords and World Eaters are very ruthless, but they fail miserably in the "loyal" and "not crazy" departments.  

[Perrin]

There are many loyal Legions though, and at the time the Wolves became the Executioners everyone was loyal. As for ruthless, they're marines.

 

I used to like the whole Wolves are Executioners thing but the more I think of it, the more it doesn't make sense.

 

The Wolves aren't superior to other Space Marines in any way. During the Great Crusade all Legions were loyal, although you could count out the ones that are harder to control, mainly the Khan, Angron and Curze.

 

Why wouldn't Sanguinius and his BA made good executioners? Or the Iron Hands, or the Death Guard, or the Iron Warriors?

 

All marines are ruthless, the Wolves even seem to be less so than others. The only possible reason I could think of is that it's because Horus was found first, so he automatically filled the position of the Emperor's favourite, destined for greatness, while Russ was found second, so with the leader of the pack role already taken he was chosen to be the enforcer, to maintain order through the threat of censure.

 

That's just off the top of my head as the only possible reason I could imagine, and it's not even one I'd go with if I was writing HH.

[Stonerhino]

Think less marines +1 and more best balanced for what the job entitles. 

[Kol Saresk]

There are many loyal Legions though, and at the time the Wolves became the Executioners everyone was loyal. As for ruthless, they're marines.

 

I used to like the whole Wolves are Executioners thing but the more I think of it, the more it doesn't make sense.

 

The Wolves aren't superior to other Space Marines in any way. During the Great Crusade all Legions were loyal, although you could count out the ones that are harder to control, mainly the Khan, Angron and Curze.

 

Why wouldn't Sanguinius and his BA made good executioners? Or the Iron Hands, or the Death Guard, or the Iron Warriors?

 

All marines are ruthless, the Wolves even seem to be less so than others. The only possible reason I could think of is that it's because Horus was found first, so he automatically filled the position of the Emperor's favourite, destined for greatness, while Russ was found second, so with the leader of the pack role already taken he was chosen to be the enforcer, to maintain order through the threat of censure.

 

That's just off the top of my head as the only possible reason I could imagine, and it's not even one I'd go with if I was writing HH.

B1Soul means blindly loyal. There was a quote from Prospero Burns, I don't recall it exactly but it basically said "What makes us so dangerous is that when the Emperor gives us an order, we follow without question or thought." The Wolves were loyal to a gault. I wouldn't be surprised if the trick was Horus saying something along the lines of "The Emperor said..."

[Deathwatch/Grey knight]

Well what about the wulfen I mean yeah Sanguinius + BA would be terrifying awesome excecuitioners but Sanguinius is afraid of his curse was absolutely terrified of it which would've given them an edge if he used it to his advantage

 

Russ on the other hand ( which I might be guessing here) sees his curse as warriors stronger then standard marines and terryfying shock troops would give a edge over other marines but I would like to see how they fare with NL

 

I mean wulfen can tear stuff up have you read the 13th company gets up to these day and they are wolf - bitten every single one of em

 

Well what about the wulfen I mean yeah Sanguinius + BA would be terrifying awesome excecuitioners but Sanguinius is afraid of his curse was absolutely terrified of it which would've given them an edge if he used it to his advantage

 

Russ on the other hand ( which I might be guessing here) sees his curse as warriors stronger then standard marines and terryfying shock troops would give a edge over other marines but I would like to see how they fare with NL

 

I mean wulfen can tear stuff up have you read the 13th company gets up to these day and they are wolf - bitten every single one of em

[DuskRaider]

Wulfen vs. Primarch: hairy dead Marines. 

[Conn Eremon]

Thing is, everyone got it into their heads that the Wolves seeing themselves as the Executioners meant that they must really be more ruthless or superior. That is really not the case in the books. They have never shown that. That has just been the fans either gloating or griping about something that was nonexistent and it snowballed from there.

[DuskRaider]

I'm honestly sick to death of hearing about the Wolves being these super Astartes that are the Emperor's death bringers more so than any other Legion. Let's look at the facts for a minute: Russ went behind the Emperor's back, confronted Angron and lost control of the situation, needlessly losing countless Astartes. He then boasted about the situation as a victory, even though at best it was a draw. As a result he gets this "Executioner" title (pretty much from himself). He shows up to Prospero against a Legion that's about the same size, if not smaller, WITH reinforcements from the Sisters of Silence (whom negate the advantage the Sorcerous Sons have in proximity) and Custodes (Astartes +1), with the opposition's Primarch actively helping the Wolves in their razing, and yet Russ still manages to lose an enormous portion of his Legion. He's pretty much knocked out of the Heresy at this point, but still finds himself in void combat with the Alpha Legion, a Legion not known for their combat prowess, and has to turn tail and run. As I've said, the Wolves aren't a special snowflake, their Astartes are only good at following their orders without question. Anything else they've done could have been done by another Legion (and in some cases done better). I'm sure this will rustle some jimmies, but it is what it is.

[Conn Eremon]

And it just keeps on snowballing . . .

[Blacksad]

ful thread of people bleating about the wolves' superiority complex, 0 of those people wolf fans. Lot of heads stuck up arses it seems.

[Kol Saresk]

 

ful thread of people bleating about the wolves' superiority complex, 0 of those people wolf fans. Lot of heads stuck up arses it seems.

Actually, I'm a fan of all the Legions. I'm just partial to the Night Lords. Its kind of that situation where everyone assumes I'm only a fan of one Legion without paying attention to the fact that I attack and defend all 18 Legions in equal measure, up to and including the Night Lords.

[Perrin]

ful thread of people bleating about the wolves' superiority complex, 0 of those people wolf fans. Lot of heads stuck up arses it seems.

 

I like all the Legions/Chapters but if I had to pick a favourite it would be the Wolves. However, being a SW fan doesn't stop me from questioning their background fluff if I think there is something there that doesn't make sense, like the whole Executioners trope.

 

Maybe it's just that my view of marines is darker than the current 30/40k universe but I can't see any Space Marine from any Legion questioning orders, or refusing to carry them out anyway, even if they don't agree with said orders. 40k is a lot different because the Chapters are more separated from the rest of the Imperium, but 30k they are very much the backbone of the Great Crusade and are given orders by the Emperor himself, not a council acting in proxy.

[Marshal Rohr]

The Wolfy-Wolf Cavalry has arrived!

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

ful thread of people bleating about the wolves' superiority complex, 0 of those people wolf fans. Lot of heads stuck up arses it seems.

I like all the Legions/Chapters but if I had to pick a favourite it would be the Wolves. However, being a SW fan doesn't stop me from questioning their background fluff if I think there is something there that doesn't make sense, like the whole Executioners trope.

 

Maybe it's just that my view of marines is darker than the current 30/40k universe but I can't see any Space Marine from any Legion questioning orders, or refusing to carry them out anyway, even if they don't agree with said orders. 40k is a lot different because the Chapters are more separated from the rest of the Imperium, but 30k they are very much the backbone of the Great Crusade and are given orders by the Emperor himself, not a council acting in proxy.

And that's why the Traitors had to purge their Legions. It wasn't to root out the "disloyal", but to root out those who were more loyal to the Emperor. That's why the Heresy was a shock. Disloyalty at any level in the Legions was just inconceivable.

[Conn Eremon]

The Wolfy-Wolf Cavalry has arrived!

Either you are referring to yourself, or you are continuing the snowball effect and are no different than the Wolfy-Wolf Cavalry.

[Wade Garrett]

Maybe it's just that my view of marines is darker than the current 30/40k universe but I can't see any Space Marine from any Legion questioning orders, or refusing to carry them out anyway, even if they don't agree with said orders.

"Khârn, stop the killing! The Emperor wills it!"

 

"I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF MY RAAAAAGE!"

 

"Sevatar, stop the torturing! The Empetor wills it."

 

"Sorry, didn't catch that over the screams of all my flayed victims."

 

"Alpharius, the secret keeping and conspiring must..."

 

"Not Alpharius, dudebro. Talk to the other guy."

[Perrin]

Maybe it's just that my view of marines is darker than the current 30/40k universe but I can't see any Space Marine from any Legion questioning orders, or refusing to carry them out anyway, even if they don't agree with said orders.

"Khârn, stop the killing! The Emperor wills it!"

"I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF MY RAAAAAGE!"

"Sevatar, stop the torturing! The Empetor wills it."

"Sorry, didn't catch that over the screams of all my flayed victims."

"Alpharius, the secret keeping and conspiring must..."

"Not Alpharius, dudebro. Talk to the other guy."

I'm half asleep so might have misunderstood this but when did any of that happen and what does it have to do with what I posted

[Perrin]

 

 

 

ful thread of people bleating about the wolves' superiority complex, 0 of those people wolf fans. Lot of heads stuck up arses it seems.

I like all the Legions/Chapters but if I had to pick a favourite it would be the Wolves. However, being a SW fan doesn't stop me from questioning their background fluff if I think there is something there that doesn't make sense, like the whole Executioners trope.

 

Maybe it's just that my view of marines is darker than the current 30/40k universe but I can't see any Space Marine from any Legion questioning orders, or refusing to carry them out anyway, even if they don't agree with said orders. 40k is a lot different because the Chapters are more separated from the rest of the Imperium, but 30k they are very much the backbone of the Great Crusade and are given orders by the Emperor himself, not a council acting in proxy.

And that's why the Traitors had to purge their Legions. It wasn't to root out the "disloyal", but to root out those who were more loyal to the Emperor. That's why the Heresy was a shock. Disloyalty at any level in the Legions was just inconceivable.

 

Yeah not questioning that, I meant it as an argument against the "Wolves are Executioners" thing. There is nothing that makes the Wolves more suitable than other marines, including loyalty. Russ was found 2nd, so for the 18 other Legions the Emperor was their commander-in-chief, they had no one else to be loyal to.

[Stonerhino]

Guilliman makes a comment in Unremembered Empire that is along the lines of "Russ is loyal in ways that shame us all".  Then in Battle of the Fang Magnus says something to the effect of "The Wolves are the perfect ideal of what the Emperor wanted as astartes".

 

But to demonstrate what I believe makes the Wolves ideal for the role of Executioners:

 

In Galaxy in Flames.  There is a scene where Loken is looking down his sights at another Astartes that killed another Legionare.  Instead of taking the shot.  Loken hesitates.  This delay does not seem to be present in the Wolves.  In Prospero Burns when faced with a simular situation (an Astartes attacking another Astrates).  The wolf fired 3 kill shots with no hesitation.

 

This is an echo of the Fenrisian culture shown earlier in the book.  Where one tribe's ally turned on them as soon as the tribe became "Bad".  Which the "Bad" was based on a sign and not anything true.  But when you add to that culture the power of an unquestioning loyal Legion.  The word of the Emperor would be all it would take to set the wolves upon the "Bad" former ally. 

 

Any Legion who would unquestionally attack an ally without any hesitation or mercy would make for a good "Executioner".  But then add to that that that Legion is one of the more aggressive Legions who would willing attack even if it means their own deaths and you a near perfect choice. 

 

Then when that Legion becomes unneeded.  You order them on a forlorn hope mission.