Space Wolfs Vs Primarchs

[Kol Saresk]

The problem is that we also have the Night Lords and World Eaters who were killing each other long before the Heresy struck out. That's the kicker; its not about who is ruthless. Its about who can be held on a leash. When the World Eaters were the War Hounds, they wore a loose leash, but it was a leash nonetheless. When they became the World Eaters, they slipped the leash.

 

Similar situation with the Night Lords in how they went from precision assault to terror assault.

 

The Wolves on the other hand, willing put on a leash. That's why the quote from Khârn describes them as dogs. They chose for a leash to be put on their neck.

[Wade Garrett]

Actually, given the events of the Night of the Wolf, it's arguable how well the VI wore the collar.

 

Russ tried to bring Angron to heel purely on his own volition, and as events played out it was the Wolf King who was the first to lose his self control and swing a weapon at his brother. These are not the actions of a perfectly controlled weapon in the Emperor's hand.

 

As for Russ and the Wolves being the most loyal, that's fanboying goofiness on about the same level as arguing (insert own favorite Primarch here) was the toughest of them all.

 

Dorn and the Fists, the Angels of Sanguinus and Johnson...what makes the Wolves "more loyal" than these Primarchs and their Legions?

[Stonerhino]

You'll have to ask Abnett why he included that line if it has no relevence.  Unless you are insinuating that in universe Guilliman is a "Wolf Fanboy" speading his "Goofiness". 

[Kol Saresk]

Actually, given the events of the Night of the Wolf, it's arguable how well the VI wore the collar.

 

Russ tried to bring Angron to heel purely on his own volition, and as events played out it was the Wolf King who was the first to lose his self control and swing a weapon at his brother. These are not the actions of a perfectly controlled weapon in the Emperor's hand.

 

As for Russ and the Wolves being the most loyal, that's fanboying goofiness on about the same level as arguing (insert own favorite Primarch here) was the toughest of them all.

 

Dorn and the Fists, the Angels of Sanguinus and Johnson...what makes the Wolves "more loyal" than these Primarchs and their Legions?

Yeah, but how much of it was Russ being an upstart and how much of it was the Emperor saying "I really wish Angron would stop" and Russ taking it as an order?

 

Remember, one of the points about Night of the Wolf is that noone knows if Russ deemed himself as the Emperor's hand, or if the Emperor did.

[Wade Garrett]

Yeah, but how much of it was Russ being an upstart and how much of it was the Emperor saying "I really wish Angron would stop" and Russ taking it as an order?

 

Even if it was a "Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest giant cybort gladiator?" situation, that's still a

Russ pitching the chain of command out the window and doing what he saw fit instead of what the Emperor explicitly commanded.

[Kol Saresk]

Not saying otherwise. Just is it Russ taking things out of context by feeling a tug to the left and jumping forward, or is it Russ actually slipping the leash?

[depthcharge12]

 

Yeah, but how much of it was Russ being an upstart and how much of it was the Emperor saying "I really wish Angron would stop" and Russ taking it as an order?

Even if it was a "Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest giant cybort gladiator?" situation, that's still a

Russ pitching the chain of command out the window and doing what he saw fit instead of what the Emperor explicitly commanded.

 

 

Wow sir. Well usage of British history there ;) and you and I are both not British haha

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Russ made the mistake of thinking he and his kind could take out Angron on their own home world... lol !! They were taking out the pups in body bags.

[Kol Saresk]

The World Eaters don't have a homeworld.......

[Hyaenidae]

Yes they do, Kol. Whatever their boots touch, is home.

[Conn Eremon]

I don't see them being so sentimental.

 

Maybe if you replaced it with "wherever blood is shed."

 

Now I am imagining a grizzled old World Eater.

 

"Home is that moment when you realize that you won't get your blade up in time, and your killer's eyes reveal that he knows it too. Home is the cold warmth of your lifeblood flowing free. Home is when you cut enough down to have lost count, so you start over. Where wills are broken, where tempers flare, where lives meant for more end abruptly, where men shatter . . . Wherever blood is shed, I am home."

 

I call him Klyn Teezwud.

[b1soul]

He shows up to Prospero against a Legion that's about the same size, if not smaller, WITH reinforcements from the Sisters of Silence (whom negate the advantage the Sorcerous Sons have in proximity) and Custodes (Astartes +1)

 

It's explicitly mentioned in Prospero Burns that the Wolves enjoy significant numerical superiority over the TSons, and that the numbers advantage (along with the sisters and custodes) really helps to counter the TSons' psychic powers

 

Killing other marines and fellow primarchs might also twist a legion's psyche and render it susceptible to Chaos corruption. I'd say the Wolves are less susceptible to corruption than the NL or WE

 

The Wolves have a combination of loyalty, ruthlessness, and the ability to avoid becoming twisted or insane from doing very unsavoury and bloody tasks

 

The Night Lords and World Eaters are psychologically twisted and batsh*t crazy, repsectively. If you order them to attack other legions, they'll only become worse.  

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Khârn is not crazy. I'd go so far as to say he is quite capable of cold logic. Home as said can be a state of mind - it's something you go back to when you need it.

[depthcharge12]

To be fair...

 

 

The real "Executioners" are actually sons of Dorn. Lead by none other than Fafnir Rann ;)

 

 

....which does sound kinda space wolfy

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

Russ made the mistake of thinking he and his kind could take out Angron on their own home world... lol !! They were taking out the pups in body bags.

It seems that, like Angron, you've missed to whole point of the 'Night of the Wolf' ;)

 

Russ was sent by the Emperor to bring the World Eaters back to Terra and have the Butchers Nails removed. Not execute Angron. This comes out later in Betrayer, the first scene is just Angron's spin on it.

[Kol Saresk]

We don't know who sent Russ, or if anyone did. Angron even points that bit out. We don't know if Night of the Wolf was the Emperor's censure of the World Eaters that is mentioned in the IA articles or if it is a different censure that Russ did of his own accord. What we do know is that according to the techpriest that did the initial studies into the Nails, the Nails could not be removed without killing Angron. So whatever the exact details of the Night of the Wolf, it was not to order the removal of the Nails, but was a cease and desist to keep others from being implanted.

[daveNYC]

Russ was sent by the Emperor to bring the World Eaters back to Terra and have the Butchers Nails removed. Not execute Angron. This comes out later in Betrayer, the first scene is just Angron's spin on it.

 

Yeah... no.  Like K_S said, none of that is accurate.  Exactly why Russ met Angron and whether he did so on his own or under orders is specifically not mentioned in the book.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

Sounds like there's an echo in here :)

 

I'll try and dug out a reference when I get home.

 

Edit. Just to clarify, my post stated that it was from the World Eaters that the nails were to be removed - not Angron. So the Archmagos' original examination may not be relevant to their interaction with a human mind. However, I think there is more on this in Betrayer :)

[Wade Garrett]

From memory:

 

Angron specifically asks Russ if the Emperor has sent him, Russ says nothing, and the Red Angel mocks him, saying that the Emperor sails the stars with Horus not giving a [redacted] about any of this.

 

Also, NoW does not fit with the other two examples we have of a Emperor issued sanction (Prospero and Khur) both of which had Custodians out in force so their could be no doubt this was the Emperor's will.

 

The evidence seems to support that Russ came up with the cunning plan of "Get in Angron's face and tell him you're the boss of him" all by himself.

[Red Angel]

From memory:

 

Angron specifically asks Russ if the Emperor has sent him, Russ says nothing, and the Red Angel mocks him, saying that the Emperor sails the stars with Horus not giving a [redacted] about any of this.

 

Also, NoW does not fit with the other two examples we have of a Emperor issued sanction (Prospero and Khur) both of which had Custodians out in force so their could be no doubt this was the Emperor's will.

 

The evidence seems to support that Russ came up with the cunning plan of "Get in Angron's face and tell him you're the boss of him" all by himself.

Angron also asks Russ if he was allowed to kill him, to which Leman has no answer. This lead me to believe that Night of the Wolf was self ordained. So, in my opinion ate least we could safely assume that Emperor did not send Rus to deal with Red Angel. It could be just Wolf King interpretating some of Allfather words wrong.

[Kais Klip]

The conversation went along the lines of Angron pointing out that Russ was indeed sent to order Angron to remove the nails, but was not authorised to confront the legion (like Russ did at Prospero). Angron pointed this out, before stamping on the pup's tail.

 

Russ frequently decides to do instead of tell, much to chagrin of everyone else.

 

Edit: Actually as my friend Durfast points out, Russ was sent to reprimand Angron and escort him to Terra, completely alike with his task at Prospero. Big E, buddy, lay off those perpertual cocktails (oh come on, what else would they be for?). At least he had enough sense to back up Russ with a compliment of Custodians and Blanks this time, which at least warrants a chortle at the up-start's adequacies.

 

Which brings me to a thought; sans said back up, how the hell did Russ' tiny legion take on the World Eaters? I'm assuming Angron doesn't run around with a reduced compliment. Might have to give the dogs some credit after this thought.

[spu00sed]

I wonder if the custodes at prospero for two reasons.

 

One to ensure Magnus complied

 

Two to ensure russ followed his ordered as the emperor intended, rather than as he saw them.

[Kais Klip]

Re: two, did they fail in that task then?

[Conn Eremon]

The conversation went along the lines of Angron pointing out that Russ was indeed sent to order Angron to remove the nails, but was not authorised to confront the legion (like Russ did at Prospero). Angron pointed this out, before stamping on the pup's tail.

 

Russ frequently decides to do instead of tell, much to chagrin of everyone else.

 

Edit: Actually as my friend Durfast points out, Russ was sent to reprimand Angron and escort him to Terra, completely alike with his task at Prospero. Big E, buddy, lay off those perpertual cocktails (oh come on, what else would they be for?). At least he had enough sense to back up Russ with a compliment of Custodians and Blanks this time, which at least warrants a chortle at the up-start's adequacies.

 

Which brings me to a thought; sans said back up, how the hell did Russ' tiny legion take on the World Eaters? I'm assuming Angron doesn't run around with a reduced compliment. Might have to give the dogs some credit after this thought.

As for the last point, the Wolves are smaller, but not tiny, and the hundred and fifty thousand World Eaters comes off as more related to their continued existence under Angron. At the time of the Night of the Wolf, the two Legions may have been very close in size for all we know.

[spu00sed]

Re: two, did they fail in that task then?

Or got duped when Horus said daddy has changed his mind.