Are Dark Apostles salvageable at all?

[Crozius Arcanum]

I've picked up Anthony Reynolds' Word Bearers trilogy and I like it. I've been inspired to collect Word Bearers and I'm consequently drawn to the Dark Apostle unit. Any fluffy Word Bearers list have a DB as an auto-include, but then they're universally written off as one of the most horrible choices in a codex replete with horrible choices and that just irks me. 

 

Knowing that they will never compete with the Lord or the Sorcerer in terms of usefulness, are there at least ways of making them work good enough for anyone playing them to not hang their head in shame? 

 

Apparently the standard tactic is to put them in a big cultist blob and advance across the field, hoping to drown anything getting in the ramshackle horde's way in an avalanche of S3 AP- attacks and the odd flamer template. MoS or MoK on all for added blending. 

 

How about a brand-toting apostle in a CSM squad? Are Possessed as useless as everyone claims? Could a power-weaponed squad of Chosen actually accomplish something with Hatred rerolls?

[Tenebris]

I personally prefer to field the DA cheap and cheerful, he is the go to option for a maxed cultist blob, them also cheap and cheerful, with rerolls and Fearless to boost their usefulness as a tarpit unit or a reliable object holder. Overall I miss some sort of rules similar to the Tau Etehreal, where he can add a buff per turn, but alas we have to do with what we have. 

 

Overall it is a solid buff unit, great with blobs (be it cultists or maxed CSM) and truth be told he performed very well on my maxed squad of CSM (20) which I use as an infantry hammer which advances across the field, eating fire, shooting bolters and than up in melee when it is practicable. It takes a lot of attention from my other units, though it is an expensive thing to do. 

[Ammonius]

Maybe if you were playing apocalypse/ escalation, and filled a Stormlord with cultists, and had the Dark Apostle to lead them?

 

It seems that a Dark Apostle with the Burning Brand and a unit of Cultists with flamer would be a good setup to man fortifications, or defend objectives. Oh hey! That unit would be particularly good defending a void shield array, since the brand and flamers could take advantage of the pipes.

[bjoluemblem]

I'll answer these sequentially:

 

1) Apostle

I personally think he is good, quite good actually, when used to support infantry. LD10 bubble is nothing to sneeze at, and he's more useful than a regular space marine chaplain most of the time. He's a foot unit babysitter, and does decently well at making backline units not flee off the table. Fun ideas for him are scrolls of magnus, and him with the black mace and melee buddies in a land raider. If you use rhinos and such to advance up the field as fast as you can, he'll keep your guys around when they disembark.

 

2) Chosen

As to the Chosen with melee weapons, I've thought about a list with 9 MoS/ 8 MoK (fluffy!) in a Land Raider with the appropriate HQ. I think a Slaanesh unit of Power sword Chosen would be best with an apostle, as you get to reroll your hits at I5 as you hit before marines. Depends on your meta, if you play against guys who run I4-I5 units, use MoS. If its all I2-I3, use MoK. 9 dudes plus an apostle with MoS is 36 attacks on the charge, MoK is 45. Just nasty if you can make it work. It is a pricey unit though. A dirge caster on a Land Raider is important.

 

3) The Brand is an all-around great weapon, good times there. I haven't found large groups of CSMs to need fearless as they tend to die to shooting before assault, which is where I would want them to be fearless. With VotLW, LD10 army wide is accessible for pretty cheap.

 

4) Possessed are an interesting assault unit, best used in a land raider, either with a beatstick HQ or by themselves. I've not tried it, but I've looked at it a few times.

 

At the end of it, pick what you want, play what you want. I have consistently beaten "tough" lists with the CSM codex, so it's not as crippled as some people are led to believe. Most of all, enjoy what you play, and have fun! Good luck, hope this helps.

[Giga]

Dark Apostate is to CSM what Chaplains are to loyalist marines, ie. a more or less dead entry. 

 

If you absolutely must use him, either put him in a land raider with an assault unit, or put him on a steed and let him accompany a unit of nurgle spawn. 

[Cornelias]

The main problem with possessed has always been the lack of assault grenades in the last few editions, this just makes them horrible assault units by default regardless of what they spin with random special rules etc.

 

Shame really as they should be awesome enough to be seen more regularly in people's armies, we'd get to see a lot more amazing converting, painting and modelling....

 

I don't think the DA would improve them any tbh

[Brother Ambroz]

Dark Apostate is to CSM what Chaplains are to loyalist marines, ie. a more or less dead entry. 

 

If you absolutely must use him, either put him in a land raider with an assault unit, or put him on a steed and let him accompany a unit of nurgle spawn. 

Ours can't take any options like that, ie. no termi armor/steed/bike/wings.

 

OP - It depends what army exactly you're going for. If you want a melee character, then I'd use a Lord instead, give him a black mace and call him your Dark Apostle. If you're looking for a backfield Ld booster than the Apostle would be good for you (still expensive but eh). For a backfield buffer, then go with a Sorcerer (telepathy or biomancy, prefer telepathy). Really though the Dark Apostles in the codex are not the same as the ones in the Word Bearer trilogy. The ones in those books are the leaders of the warband, powerful warriors, whereas the ones in the codex may share the same name, but are little more than sergeants with an extra rule.

 

Edit spelling.

[Azash]

The DA and Chaplain have another thing in common...they are cool looking mini's. I don't play C:CSM but I constantly here the major draw back is no form of atsknf. Seems to me that the morale bubble is a relatively cheap way to compensate for that. Not apples to apples but its what's available and its ~100 pts.

[Brother Ambroz]

Yeah its one of many drawbacks in the book. The only problem there is that you use up one of the valuable HQ slots.

[Trevak Dal]

Yes, if the Apostle (and Warpsmith) were 1-3 elites choices like Sangunary priests, or were HQs that didn't take up a slot, or we got some special "You can have extra HQs" like Space Wolves or Daemons, then it'd be a non issue.

 

As it is, I look at what they do, what they cost, and what they Can't take, and I can't justify that purchase.

[Daevyll]

Well I'm not a tournament top player, but I've had very good results with a DA leading a unit of cheap-and-cheerful Chosen. DA also stock except for some meltabombs.

 

If you leave the Chosen with just their default gear you effectively get an extra base attack for 3 ppm, meaning 4 attacks on the charge to which the DA adds Hatred and he makes them fearless. Put them in a Rhino with a dirge caster and you have a good, very versatile unit that doesnt break the bank. 

 

Currently I use him with a cultist blob however. I dont move them much, they sit in cover on my home objective and are damn hard to shift due to the combination of # of bodies, fearless and massed overwatch.