is anti air needed?

[MomentoMori]

Many of the GW and local places to play In Baltimore are closed down. I haven't had a game with new sisters yet. I was wondering has there been much success with out AA support for our community?

 

I want to run a very pure list of up too 10 MM immolaters troops/doms/hq and exo's. I'm thinking a list like this needs no true AA. Again I have no experience with new dex and haven't played a real 6th game yet.

[Dread]

Well it is really hard to say. I play against some who swear on flyers but I have figured out that ignoring them sometimes is the best policy. Now I would love to have a sisters based flyer but don't see that happening anytime soon. If you know you are facing an army that has them, use the fortress or bastion to help with it. Other then that, digging in and shooting at units to destroy that are bigger threats makes more sense to go after.

[Payce]

Your first encounter with a double/triple Heldrake or Cron Air will answer this for you fairly adequately.

 

Flyers are unfortunately a very real and very powerful part of the game now. I would at the very least take an Aegis Line with a Quad Gun.

[tvih]

A "normal" list just won't have enough AA against tripledrake or CronAir anyway, so in that sense using those as justification for having AA won't really work. A single Quad Gun would do nothing against those lists. In the end it depends on the people you play with, anyway. In my last 6 local tournament matches only one of my opponents had flying things in them, and those were FMCs.

[Naminé]

A "normal" list just won't have enough AA against tripledrake or CronAir anyway, so in that sense using those as justification for having AA won't really work. A single Quad Gun would do nothing against those lists. In the end it depends on the people you play with, anyway. In my last 6 local tournament matches only one of my opponents had flying things in them, and those were FMCs.

 

Tvih has it right.

 

I always say this, but I'm a staunch believer that no army needs dedicated anti-air.  In the case of AS, I wouldn't even bother (especially with your list).  There are much better ways to deal with mass flyers then a single anti-air gun.  Never take a fortification purely for anti-air options; better to take one because it benefits the rest of your army in some way.  Remember for every flyer the enemy has in their army that is more points he has off the table, thus at least giving you one turn (but likely to be more) free from the threat of them entirely and then his puny army is left to fend for itself.  Doms in particular will make people regret this choice.

 

Even if you have the worst luck in the world you get one turn before the flyers arrive and then there are many tactics you can fall back on to severely hamper their effectiveness.  I generally only shoot at flyers if there's nothing else for a unit to do.

[Fibonacci]

I love the defense line with quad-gun.  100 points, gives cover for the Exorcists and allows Interceptor shots at deep striking units as well as anti-air support.  It is worth having for more than just anti-air.

 

But about anti-air, counter to my normal idea of focusing on a unit until it is gone, with flyers all you need to do is force it to jink.  Once you take it's bite away, don't waste any more firepower on it that turn.  To have a good chance at getting a glance or better hit on a flyer, you need one of these: 

 

3 Exorcists

6 melta shots at half range.

9 melta shots at over half range 

1 quad-gun

 

So 3 Immolators shooting at 12" or less is a good chance of hurting a flyer who will then try to shrug it off with a jink save.  Double the above to actualy take out a flyer.  So you can see where the trap is to waste your entire turn shooting at one target.  But once you force it to make a jink save, the shoe is on the other foot since the flyer will be ineffective on it's next turn.

 

In casual, friendly pick-up games, flyers will be there to harass your troops.  One Heldrake or 2 necron scyths are typical and nothing to be too worried about.  Stay in your transports as much as possible to keep the flame template or tesla arcs off your troops and your good.  If someone brings 4 drakes or a Necron list with 9 flyers, they are not there for a friendly game at all.

[PureFodder]

If your area is Forgeworld friendly and you have the money, you can get the Avenger Strike Fighter to fill the anti-flier role. It's also a great air-to-ground strike fighter.

 

I never leave the convent without one.

[AdmLancel]

I really only like the Quad when I take a Retributor Squad for the hilarity of using hte Act of Faith with it. Actually, can we even still do that trick?

[*Furyou Miko]

Only once, I think.

[Naminé]

Or never if you can't pass an act of faith test, like me :p

[Fibonacci]

or 2 twice if you buy them the gear

 

OK, 3 times max but that's it.

[Eddie Orlock]

Unless you take two squads, then you might beable to finagle the whole game?

[tvih]

I really only like the Quad when I take a Retributor Squad for the hilarity of using hte Act of Faith with it. Actually, can we even still do that trick?

 

Rending? Meh. It'd be funnier to ignore cover with it. Although it sucks you can't use an AoF with an Interceptor attack.

[Fibonacci]

Retributor squads with 4 Heavy Flamers standing near promethium relay pipes would give you 4 Rending torrent heavy flamers. Now THAT'S funny :)

 

Just for those keeping score ... that setup has a better MEQ kill chance than a baleflamer.  It certianly does not have the mobility of a heldrake and since I don't have my nook with me I am not sure about the cost.  They would be close, though.

 

But now we are way off topic.  No templates against flyers so the who idea is unusable.