Aegnor Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Khârn has come back from the dead. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284666-question-about-vulkan-spoilers/page/2/#findComment-3549703 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Thats why Wade said Eidolon was the only Chaos Marine other than Khârn and Lucius that he could think of that have been resurrected. Even then, Eidolon didn't really die so much as his head was removed and then put on life support by Fabius. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284666-question-about-vulkan-spoilers/page/2/#findComment-3549711 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karthak Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 The only other Chaos Marine I can think of who's returned from the dead is Eidolon, and I believe he becomes a Daemon Prince post Heresy. Oh poo. I was hoping that at least one of the really insufferable chaos characters wouldn't survive the Heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284666-question-about-vulkan-spoilers/page/2/#findComment-3549821 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 The only other Chaos Marine I can think of who's returned from the dead is Eidolon, and I believe he becomes a Daemon Prince post Heresy. Oh poo. I was hoping that at least one of the really insufferable chaos characters wouldn't survive the Heresy.No, only the insufferable ones will survive. Except for Khârn. He gets to Bad :cuss Eternal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284666-question-about-vulkan-spoilers/page/2/#findComment-3549834 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwatch/Grey knight Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 What about mkar and didn't blackheart die before he became black heart I guess I can't use thousand sons as example can't I What about grugler the death guard Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284666-question-about-vulkan-spoilers/page/2/#findComment-3549863 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwatch/Grey knight Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 I mean every death really died first and then nurgle brought them back except for loyalist And the one on Luna Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284666-question-about-vulkan-spoilers/page/2/#findComment-3549864 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 M'kar was granted daemonhood upon his death, so not really a resurrection. Blackheart didn't die, he was just close to death before being remade by his apothecaries and techmarines. Grulgor comes back more as a daemon than a space marine, in fact he is a daemon prince during the Medusa IV campaign. It will probably become clearer when the DG are covered in the HH but I think they are on the edge of death when they accept Nurgle's blessing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284666-question-about-vulkan-spoilers/page/2/#findComment-3550002 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwatch/Grey knight Posted December 20, 2013 Author Share Posted December 20, 2013 But he died first as a marine I mean he got eaten by the virus eater stuff ( I honestly thought there were chaos marines that keep coming back) But all I'm saying is if Erebus used warp ritual wouldn't have make her darker? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284666-question-about-vulkan-spoilers/page/2/#findComment-3550731 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 In what sense? Do you mean corrupted? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284666-question-about-vulkan-spoilers/page/2/#findComment-3550992 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwatch/Grey knight Posted December 21, 2013 Author Share Posted December 21, 2013 Well yeah I guess I do Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284666-question-about-vulkan-spoilers/page/2/#findComment-3551126 Share on other sites More sharing options...
d715 Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Don't forget Anval Thawn the Grey knight Perpetual. So it isn't chaos base Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284666-question-about-vulkan-spoilers/page/2/#findComment-3551155 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwatch/Grey knight Posted December 21, 2013 Author Share Posted December 21, 2013 I'm not saying it's chaos base I'm saying what Erebus did was chaos so wouldn't that make her corrupted or a chaos mistress and not a perpetual Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284666-question-about-vulkan-spoilers/page/2/#findComment-3551289 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Don't forget Anval Thawn the Grey knight Perpetual. So it isn't chaos base This is the first I've heard of Anval Thawn, and after looking him up on Lexi he is my new favourite character As for (forgotten her name, the one from TFH), it remains to be seen whether she is a Perpetual or tainted by Chaos. I'm not sure if Perpetuals can be corrupted, though if they are a modern replacement of the Sensei from the old fluff then they should be immune. I don't think the Cabal would have sent an agent to abduct her if she was tainted by chaos though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284666-question-about-vulkan-spoilers/page/2/#findComment-3551326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carach Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 who says it was the cabal that ordered the rescue mission? i thought that, from KNF and some other references, grammaticus is part of something that is not only related to the cabal. he's part of some human jazz too with mr pious and, it seems, whoever the humans were in betrayer Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284666-question-about-vulkan-spoilers/page/2/#findComment-3552020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 It wasn't Grammaticus who takes Cyrene, it was Damon Prytanis(?), who is much more loyal to the Cabal. Doesn't appear to have as strong a connection to his humanity, or that much of a relationship with his own species. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284666-question-about-vulkan-spoilers/page/2/#findComment-3552074 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carach Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 i am aware that it wasnt grammaticus that took cyrene. uhm.. dunno if its spoilerish or not but ill put it in the tab anyway; in KNF grammaticus refers to others (perpetuals, or random other human agents for whoever? malcador? his own newly formed gang? who knows) during the dream sequence with pious. that pious is one of the few on the other side of the storm or whatever. He is openly attempting, during the dream scene, to get pious to help save mankind. Therefore its not too much to believe that Grammaticus, whilst being empowered by the Cabal and doing their bidding at certain points, is perhaps not all he seems. Could be a coincidence that these human perpetuals turn up in Betrayer and jack Cyrene. But i believe they are part of this greater storyline. Either part of this bigger perpetual conspiracy thing, or part of malcador's gang. or hell, they could be both. Its been alluded to enough that there's a bunch of perpetuals in Malcadors gang, that he himself is most likely one, as is the Emperor. We also know the Cabal fail in their goals so.. something goes awry somewhere.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284666-question-about-vulkan-spoilers/page/2/#findComment-3553233 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 When has it ever been alluded to that there are Perpetuals in Malcadors gang? I must have missed that. Damon Pryantis (the one who took Cyrene) is a loyal agent of the Cabal. So much so that he even seems to have left his humanity behind, and on various occasions shows that he has no real connection with humanity anymore. Grammaticus was a Cabal agent, but he has turned on them to try and save humanity. Ollanius Pious was never a Cabal agent, and has been sent on a mission by his old friend Grammaticus to try and save humanity. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284666-question-about-vulkan-spoilers/page/2/#findComment-3553351 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 When has it ever been alluded to that there are Perpetuals in Malcadors gang? I must have missed that. Damon Pryantis (the one who took Cyrene) is a loyal agent of the Cabal. So much so that he even seems to have left his humanity behind, and on various occasions shows that he has no real connection with humanity anymore. Grammaticus was a Cabal agent, but he has turned on them to try and save humanity. Ollanius Pious was never a Cabal agent, and has been sent on a mission by his old friend Grammaticus to try and save humanity. In the short story Lost Sons, Rubio makes mention how there are Astartes, mortals "and....... others" in the service of Malcador. Most assume that it means Perpetuals although it could just as easily mean xenos since the only beings Astartes refer to as "mortals" are non-Astartes humans. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284666-question-about-vulkan-spoilers/page/2/#findComment-3553365 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 He might mean that as being part of the Emperor's gang. One of them, I think Grammaticus or Pius, mentions that he refused to join the Emperor's plans. The whole bit made it sound like the Emperor had been on a recruitment drive for Perpetuals. No idea how successful he was, as all we know is that Pius refused. Basic throw away statement that hints at something grand and unknown. How many Perpetuals are on the Emperor's side? What are they doing? What impact do they have in the Imperium; where is their mark on history? Edit: Which could be what Kol's post implies as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284666-question-about-vulkan-spoilers/page/2/#findComment-3553370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Sgt. Steine Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 I just finished VL last night. GREAT READ, but I got lost in the last 10 pages. Can anyone help me better understand the ending sequence and what it means? Is Grammaticus really tasked with killing Vulkan? BSS Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284666-question-about-vulkan-spoilers/page/2/#findComment-3555341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothecary Vaddon Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 I just finished VL last night. GREAT READ, but I got lost in the last 10 pages. Can anyone help me better understand the ending sequence and what it means? Is Grammaticus really tasked with killing Vulkan? BSS He was, but AFAIK the way in which the spear was used contributes to the end result, and Grammaticus basically used up his immortality ability to make Vulkan sane again. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284666-question-about-vulkan-spoilers/page/2/#findComment-3555384 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 Shhhhhhh! Spoilers! From a different book! Actually, only a Primarch could use the fulgurite to kill a Primarch. His mission was to make that happen. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284666-question-about-vulkan-spoilers/page/2/#findComment-3555388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 My problem is thus. Two years between vulkan lives and unremembered at least. I will somehow allow for warp travel evenbthough it was a basic teleport. How does vulkan lose his marbles when wgat he suffered was apparently less than being in the good old blast furnace? Writers supposedly working together making bigger plot holes than star wars? Just give me pert vs vulkan man to man then we will see madness as super strentgh is defeated by poking Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284666-question-about-vulkan-spoilers/page/2/#findComment-3555391 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 No, recall that at the end of Vulkan Lives, his sanity was pretty much shattered. Then traveling unprotected through the realm that makes madness look as stable as a rock simply destroyed the fragments. Remember, the warp can drive people mad who are protected. Try going through it with the only thing separating you from it is your skin. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284666-question-about-vulkan-spoilers/page/2/#findComment-3555410 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 No madman makes a monlogue as good as guilleman before making the decision to leave his sons with sadness in his heart, though I will relent on the warp point Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284666-question-about-vulkan-spoilers/page/2/#findComment-3555414 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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