Misfortune vs. Fortune

[Calnus]

So, had a chance to play against a Fortune'd Seer Council the other day, and got lucky rolling Misfortune for my psychic power.  Now, the question came up for which power takes precedence.

 

Does Misfortune force the council to re-roll all failed saves, as normal, and prevent them from re-rolling any failures from Fortune?

 

or does Fortune force the re-roll of all failures, using up the "single re-roll per die" rule before Misfortune activates?

 

or do both occur simultaneously, forcing essentially a whole new roll for every save, regardless of whether it originally passed or failed?

[Seahawk]

Option 3.

 

Roll all saves twice is the way to play by the rules. Misfortune makes you reroll successes, and Fortune makes you reroll failures.

 

You may agree with your opponent that both cancel out, but there is no basis in the rules for that. The reroll may matter, and only takes up a fraction of a second, so there's no real argument behind only rolling once other than "laziness". 

[Fibonacci]

Misfortune forces the unit to re-roll and successful armor saves.

Fortune allows the re-roll of any failed armor saves.

Notice that each affect different dice.  For example if the unit attempts 6 armor saves and passes 2 of them, 4 dice would be re-rolled due to Fortune and 2 dice would be re-rolled due to Misfortune.  Each die is only re-rolled once and all dice will be re-rolled.

 

 

If you are feeling funny, a unit affected by both Fortune and Misfortune would roll for armor saves, pickup all the dice (both failed and successful rolls) and roll them again.  It is normally easier to assume they cancel each other out and just roll once.

[DarkGuard]

I'd still go by Seahawk's suggestion to re-roll them. The re-roll is not arbitrary, and luck does strange things. You may find yourself actually cheating your opponent, or even yourself, if you don't make the re-roll.

[Grey Mage]

Statistically it wont change anything, but statistics.... well, if we all went by that we would have little cause to put bases to table tops.

 

Still, I usually ask for the gentlemans agreement of 'first roll, no rerolls'

[hallodx]

I think it's simple.

You reroll all, since there are only passed or failed, and both kind should be rerolled, just reroll all.

And yeah, statistically it's the same.

[Morollan]

We had a situation last night where one player was rolling a shooting attack and thought his model was BS5. He'd rolled to hit and wound before he remembered that it was actually only BS3. So we agreed to just start again and reroll to hit. Despite having 2 less BS than the first time he actually hit and wounded with more shots. Statistics rarely resemble reality when dealing with a sample size this small.

[Dam13n]

Given that you would roll all your dice, then have to re-roll all of them.  

The reasonable solution is to agree with you opponent before rolling the first time if you will bother re-rolling at all.

 

The RAW is that every die must be re-rolled

However, not re-rolling at all is quicker and has the same statistical spread.

 

The Warhammer FAQ (although not 100% relevant) does have something to say on the matter:

 

 

Q: If a model is granted a re-roll To Hit from a special rule such as
Hatred but the model they are attacking has a special rule, magic
item etc. that forces successful To Hit rolls to be re-rolled, how is this
dealt with? (p7)
A: They cancel each other out and no re-rolls are made for as
long as both special rules are in effect.

 

So, that should still be the answer were the question posed from a 40k perspective.

[Morollan]

The 5e FAQ said much the same.

 

 

Q: If a unit has a special rule that lets it re-roll failed saves and is being affected by an enemy special rule that makes them re-roll successful saves how is this
resolved? (p25)
A: Whilst you should technically roll all the dice and then re-roll them, just roll the saves once and apply the results to save time.

[Spinsanity]

Note that this should be agreed to before any dice are rolled... i've seen players roll their dice (attacks, saves, whatever) and depending on their original roll (good or bad) argue that they should or shouldn't reroll everything afterwards... (Sometimes changing stance midgame, of course)

[Seahawk]

Consistency is the most important thing here.

 

I for one will always take the reroll, because that's how I

.

[Grey Mage]

Will.... not... click.... link.....

[hallodx]

Consistency is the most important thing here.

 

I for one will always take the reroll, because that's how I

.

Now reroll. (Click |<<