Captain Semper Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 So how are you guys going about them? I really struggle to make them fit in my lists... In my view it's only worth using them in 10 strong squads (to make use of the two special weapons) and only if you make use of their (expensive) options. But then their cost rises fast to almost Terminator levels that makes me wonder if they're worth the trouble... I was thinking running them as a 40k tact. squad with tooled up sergeant and one or two special weapons... But wouldn't that be a waste for a unit that has (on paper) so much potential? Maybe one should start from the special ability he wants to bestow on the vets. So tank hunters for example could be using two missile launchers? Or furious charge could lead to a couple of Heavy Flamers and some power weapons? What do you guys think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284700-use-of-veteran-tactical-squads-ideas/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I think you're looking at this wrong, brother (no offense, of course). The Heresy is all about a theme, a setting, creating a story that make others weep. The real question is, how do you envisage your Emperor's Children, and how would veterans, who are the exemplars of your Maniple and Champions of your Praetor, best fit the image you are presenting? Another thought would be the Swords of a Thousand Forges section in the EC entry in the first HH book... A chance to play with and model all sorts of strange blades of various design for your elites to run about and raise hell would be awesome. Food for thought. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284700-use-of-veteran-tactical-squads-ideas/#findComment-3549778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 No, no, you got me wrong! :P I'm all for fluffy armies, my Emperor's Children is build upon that principle! I'm not trying to power build here - I hardly ever play anyway! Hahaha!!! In fact that's my problem. I want to make a fluffy Pride of the Legion SoHs army that will be soft on Terminators. That's my fluff restriction and the challenge I'm setting for myself is to design a 1,750 army where the troops choices will not be Termies and still be playable and balanced on some level. I just don't want to have a 1750pts army with only 30 minis... :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284700-use-of-veteran-tactical-squads-ideas/#findComment-3549787 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MordentHex Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Like a normal 40k tactical squad, but better? :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284700-use-of-veteran-tactical-squads-ideas/#findComment-3549795 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Hey, I said no offense. That makes me non-liable. I'm impressed you didn't go for the Maru Skara rite of war for your boys, to be honest. That looks pretty nasty. Alright, in that case, I'm gonna be no help. I am a son of the IV Legion, and have no sense of balance in a theatre of war. I just keep stacking explosives on my vets. Going with the following for my first vet squad: 9 man squad (w/ either fearless, outflank or tank hunter, depending.) Sgt: Thunder Hammer Melta gun Nuncio vox (because directed mass artillery is good) sprinkled PW's and Serpentas for flavor Apothecary w/ Combi-Melta Rolling in a LR Proteus, because augury webs are fun. bake at 400 degrees, cool for 15 minutes, serves one (my opponent). EDIT: ACK! Forgot the Apothecary... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284700-use-of-veteran-tactical-squads-ideas/#findComment-3549798 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Honestly I go meltas and tank hunters and drop them in with drop pods :D I just utilise them like I would a normal tac squad in 40k but rather then general use I think of utilising them as specialists Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284700-use-of-veteran-tactical-squads-ideas/#findComment-3549809 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cod Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Well I have been working on a themed HH list including Vets which is proving fun. After having revisited the old 'Ironwing' Dark Angel units from epic I have tried to recreate that list. So I have played around with tacticals vs vet tacticals. What I came up with for vets was the Pride of the Legion option, and 10 strong vet units with 2 special weapons and some with 2 heavy weapons, but all in rhinos. Those rhinos are also beefed up with the extra weapon options available, which compliment the unit. So, for example: 10 vets, 2 volkites, rhino with heavy bolter 10 vets, 2 plasma, rhino with heavy bolter 10 vets, 2 heavy bolters and suspensor webs, rhino with heavy bolter 10 vets, 2 missile launchers and suspensor webs, rhino with havoc launcher 10 vets, 2 heavy flamers, rhino with heavy flamer Then by adding the appropriate veteran tactic they become even more specialists with clear cut roles. Have fun planning out how your vets will work. Cod Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284700-use-of-veteran-tactical-squads-ideas/#findComment-3549855 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Remember, every single Veteran can take a Power Weapon on top of having the option for a Heavy Weapon with Suspensor Webbing or a Special Weapon. It might be expensive, but load give some Power Swords for the Initiative strike, while others have Axes for that extra oomph. Heavy Bolters go well with the Sniper rule, Missile Launchers with Tank Hunter, and I dunno about Heavy Flamers but as a Death Guard player I love them. I wouldn't run an entire army of Vets, but the ones I would run would be armed to the teeth. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284700-use-of-veteran-tactical-squads-ideas/#findComment-3549872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barabbas Sogalon Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I plan on equipping the three veteran squads for my army closely to the fluff I've created for them: The one with a majority of Terrans will get several power weapons, volkite chargers and a vexilla. Melta-things, some power weapons and for the squad specialized in frontal assaults, storming breaches and such. Heavy bolter, meltagun and a few power weapons for the one that epitomizes what it is to be Death Guard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284700-use-of-veteran-tactical-squads-ideas/#findComment-3549901 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MordentHex Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 The problem with them is that the base squad is cheap enough, but once you start kitting them out with options they get pricy. Think of them not as an Elite unit but a support unit. You dont want to kit them all out and then have some primarch or special character rampage through them and they die. They are just a tactical squad with +1 attack and a special skill at heart. Keep it simple and just spend those extra points on more cool stuff. Quantity man, Quantity Edit: Example: 10 man V.T. squad with 2 H. flamers, Vexilla and Vox, plus V.S. with a P.W. = 260 20 man T. Squad, V.S. with P.W. =260 You wouldn't get close enough to them before they shot the living crap out of you to use those H. Flamers and charge. Also your not going to win a stand up fire fight 1 on 1 with them either. Thats a rather bare bones V. Tac squad too. All the other heavy weapons and special weapons cost the same or more. They would however be a great counter strike unit to support your other squads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284700-use-of-veteran-tactical-squads-ideas/#findComment-3549924 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I don't see the point of using Vets if you're not going to kit them out. That's what they're included for, after all. You just need to know what you can and cannot use them against. I'd also think a Support / Heavy Squad would be valuable as a tag-along. Have your Vets geared toward CC and have an Autocannon squad follow them around for ranged threats, so on and so forth. If you're using them as Troops, it's worth it. If you're using them as Elites, you're not really looking into your Elite options well enough, because there's things that are much more valuable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284700-use-of-veteran-tactical-squads-ideas/#findComment-3549953 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noserenda Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I tend to use them with 2 special weapons and Sniper as a regular squad that just happens to excel in hth and shooting, not too costly and the Sniper rule is extremely useful for picking off Sergeants, Apothecaries and other troublemakers :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284700-use-of-veteran-tactical-squads-ideas/#findComment-3549999 Share on other sites More sharing options...
crimsonhand Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 This game is 'historical' 40k. Its very similar to when I played WW2 games. Most units are armed the same, same equipment, slightly different tactics. Taking it to seriously will leave you unhappy. That said, I understand wanting to get an effective fighting force. With Vets, I like the Rite of Battle to allow them and Termis to be troop choices. Also the orbital one isn't to bad either. Allowing them to Use drop pods is nice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284700-use-of-veteran-tactical-squads-ideas/#findComment-3550017 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telhdrat Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 In the HH Weekender I played against a Dark Angel player who used them as a shooty counter assault unit and at least in our game they worked pretty well. First few turns they kept killing my World Eaters with their volkites and when some of my forces got close they assaulted, and the coupple of power swords they had made quite the difference in the fight. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284700-use-of-veteran-tactical-squads-ideas/#findComment-3550019 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Outflank and Nuncio vox, weapons to taste, and use them like forward air controllers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284700-use-of-veteran-tactical-squads-ideas/#findComment-3550074 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vazzy Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Outflank and Nuncio vox, weapons to taste, and use them like forward air controllers. Dammit. *Scurries over to bitz box* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284700-use-of-veteran-tactical-squads-ideas/#findComment-3550190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Outflank and Nuncio vox, weapons to taste, and use them like forward air controllers. ....and abuse the word "Danger Close" like you're playing Call of Duty.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284700-use-of-veteran-tactical-squads-ideas/#findComment-3550278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 And build a Fire Raptor gunship with the call sign "Spooky". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284700-use-of-veteran-tactical-squads-ideas/#findComment-3550299 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noserenda Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 Outflank and Nuncio vox, weapons to taste, and use them like forward air controllers. Hehe I was actually half thinking about a Recon Squad with Shotguns for this, mostly because their shotguns are sexy ill admit.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284700-use-of-veteran-tactical-squads-ideas/#findComment-3550402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 Outflank and Nuncio vox, weapons to taste, and use them like forward air controllers. Basically how I'm using mine. They'll be forward, acting as FiST'rs, directing fire for my Medusas' Phosphex shells, Earthshakers, Whirlwind Scorpius and Quad Mortars. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284700-use-of-veteran-tactical-squads-ideas/#findComment-3550427 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted December 20, 2013 Author Share Posted December 20, 2013 A number of very interesting takes there guys - thanks for the responses. I totally agree that if you take them you need to tool them up. I also agree that it should be a 10-strong option to really work (use two special/heavy weapons). I also understand that having them as both ranged and c/c specialists, although possible, it may be prohibitingly expensive points-wise and although the unit will tactically flexible, trying to do everything with one unit is just not the way to go. So three broad categories: 1. Ranged Vets. These will take heavy weapons with suspensors and use them effectively as a support squad that can quickly redeploy. Question is, is the redeployement ability worth the smaller firepower compared to say, a Heavy Support squad? The special abilities may tip the balance here, tank hunter or sniper... 2. C/C vets: These are going to be loaded with power weapons, the furious charge ability and possibly a rhino for quick delivery. Howerver if you go for 10 strong and loads of power weapons it makes you think if it's worth the points compared to an assault squad that has overall a better delivery system imo (jump packs) and still can pack a couple of power weapons plus the sergeant). 3. The 40k approach: Two special/heavy weapons, tooled up sergenat (power fist?) not many other extras and a choice of special abilities that can sort of give them a more flavored role... Still, my initial impulse of using Tactical Vets as Tacticals in a "Pride of the Legion" army is not very viable... I beleive the core should be Termies (much as I liked to avoid it) and use the Tactical Vets for flavor. Or, in order to keep costs down, not at all - the Termies can take care of themselves. So here is a funny conclusion: Tactical Vets may fit a non-"Pride of the Legion" army more than than an actual "Pride of the Legion army"! Keep your ideas coming, I find this very interesting! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284700-use-of-veteran-tactical-squads-ideas/#findComment-3550475 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 Out of curiosity, any reason you're avoiding the Maru Skara rite of war? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284700-use-of-veteran-tactical-squads-ideas/#findComment-3550506 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted December 20, 2013 Author Share Posted December 20, 2013 Well, since you asked... The Marus Skara is indeed a very exciting prospect! However I've set a task to work on a rather restricting list both tactically and modelling wise. The project was conceived before I obtained Massacre and although I can shift it to fit the Maru Skara (probably the best rite of war out there - at least on paper), I want to see my original list complete. It's a matter of test of will - more so as the Phoenix Guard and the Kakophoni (beautiful minis) cannot be a part of it! I already strayed and did the Kakophoni regardless, but I'm going to complete the 1,750pts force in the next couple of months. Having said that, I can always expand the choices and fit them in the Maru Skara later on (adding those amazing Phoenix Guard). My grand plan is to work on two Traitor lists before the Dark Angels become available (1Q15???) That means that they'll be allied against the DAs but where the DAs are going to be very large (3,500pts) balanced force the Traitors will be allied and complementary. So I'm toying with either "Pride of the Legion" SoHs or an Armoured Spearhead Word Bearers army. As a last point, the Wrath of Angels that I currently use in my EC force will come in handy at the battle of Terra. Beurocrat hunting requires some speed (boy do they run) but not so much heavy guns... These are good for the likes of, dunno, Iron Warriors? :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284700-use-of-veteran-tactical-squads-ideas/#findComment-3550517 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 So then army 2 should be some heretical word bearers Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284700-use-of-veteran-tactical-squads-ideas/#findComment-3550527 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted December 20, 2013 Author Share Posted December 20, 2013 Maybe... Or Sons of Horus. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284700-use-of-veteran-tactical-squads-ideas/#findComment-3550531 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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