Use of Veteran Tactical Squads - ideas?

[GhostMalone]

Ehh too many of those out there ;)

But I can't wait brother to see the next installment

[Kol Saresk]

Maybe throw in some Night Lord Raptors to keep up with the speed theme.

[Captain Semper]

I'm actually looking to keep the speed theme for the ECs and use the other force as a more static/ more resilient element - hence tanks and Termies. The more I think of it the more I think Tactical Vets cannot paly the role of normal Tacts in a non-Rites of War list.

 

And I like the idea of Word Bearers....

 

http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb402/ackool/Emperors%20Children/SAM_0650_zps361b3b0f.jpg

 

http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb402/ackool/Emperors%20Children/SAM_0651_zps6923d11d.jpg

[GhostMalone]

I'll support you there brother word bearers it is!

[MordentHex]

I'm actually looking to keep the speed theme for the ECs and use the other force as a more static/ more resilient element - hence tanks and Termies. The more I think of it the more I think Tactical Vets cannot paly the role of normal Tacts in a non-Rites of War list.

And I like the idea of Word Bearers....

http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb402/ackool/Emperors%20Children/SAM_0650_zps361b3b0f.jpg

http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb402/ackool/Emperors%20Children/SAM_0651_zps6923d11d.jpg

They can't. they just don't have the volume of fire, but they can be used in other ways. With that said. A pride of the legion army with Vet Tac squads is possible. You just have to make sure you have the right support squads to go with them. Kind of like Eldar, nothing is going to work on its own. Its the whole of the army that wins. With that said, if you prefer terminators, go for them instead. Both look cool, but i do like that red very much!

[DuskRaider]

I honestly don't see too much of a point of taking Veterans over Terminators in a Pride of the Legion force. Maybe for their USR, maybe because they don't require a Spartan to move around (although the Spartan is a great anti-tank platform as well as being nigh unstoppable). Personally, I'm taking Veterans because it's in the Death Guard Rite of War, and I'm making an elite force for Zone Mortalis so it's not as big of a deal.

 

Terminators will hit harder, survive longer, and can take more fire power. There's always the cost in points, but honestly a similarly equipped Veteran squad will cost you just as much (if not more).

[Kol Saresk]

DuskRaider, it is purely for personal preference. Refer to Heathens' post.

[DuskRaider]

I know, I understand. I just saw what Mordent had said about being undecided and figured I'd throw it out there.

[Kol Saresk]

Fair enough. Might as well present both sides. Flavor flav and all that. :D

[DuskRaider]

YEEEEEEEEEAH BOOOOOOY!

[TheForgottenAngel]

For my 1st Legion vets I plan on themeing the veteran squad as the HH version of Arthur's knights ( Lancelot Dual Powerswords (Counts as Lightning claws) Bors (Dual wielding combat blades) Dagonet (Two Handed Axe from MKII set) Galahad (Powersword) Tristan (Not sure yet) and then fill out the rest with powerswords, dual wielding axes etc. Just fill the unit with character and not care what it costs points wise! lol

[depthcharge12]

For my 1st Legion vets I plan on themeing the veteran squad as the HH version of Arthur's knights ( Lancelot Dual Powerswords (Counts as Lightning claws) Bors (Dual wielding combat blades) Dagonet (Two Handed Axe from MKII set) Galahad (Powersword) Tristan (Not sure yet) and then fill out the rest with powerswords, dual wielding axes etc. Just fill the unit with character and not care what it costs points wise! lol

 

 

Please for the love of God make a 40mm objective marker with a white bunny on it.

 

 

 

You will get +1 for life

[DuskRaider]

Veterans are definitely good for adding character. Great for doubling as a kill team as well. I'm considering trying to get my mitts on the Recon Squad Sniper Rifles for a Veteran Squad using the Sniper USR. Just have to figure out how to make a Heavy Bolter look like a Marksman Rifle, lol.

[Hyaenidae]

 Just have to figure out how to make a Heavy Bolter look like a Marksman Rifle, lol.

 

Barrett's got you covered, brother.

http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/images/xm_109_1.jpg

[DuskRaider]

I've always wanted a .50 cal... They make conversions for the AR, but they're hella expensive. That and I'm in Kommunist New York. But I digress, that's not a bad idea at all. I think it was Apologist that made one for his true scale Alpha Legion using a Max Mini M249 and the muzzle from a GW Heavy Bolter, so there's also that.

 

Edit: just had an idea. What about a Tigrus Combi-Bolter with extended plasticard barrels and a stock?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

For my 1st Legion vets I plan on themeing the veteran squad as the HH version of Arthur's knights ( Lancelot Dual Powerswords (Counts as Lightning claws) Bors (Dual wielding combat blades) Dagonet (Two Handed Axe from MKII set) Galahad (Powersword) Tristan (Not sure yet) and then fill out the rest with powerswords, dual wielding axes etc. Just fill the unit with character and not care what it costs points wise! lol

These are the kind of armies that tend to look awesome and are the most fun to play in my mind. I think this is a great idea.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think one of the major weaknesses of the new 40k codex is Space Marine units tend to be highly specialized now. 30k on the other hand you can build strong units that are good at shooting (mostly midrange) and melee. I think the veteran squad can be a work horse and well worth the points if designed right.

[coloroutofspace]

I honestly don't see too much of a point of taking Veterans over Terminators in a Pride of the Legion force. Maybe for their USR, maybe because they don't require a Spartan to move around (although the Spartan is a great anti-tank platform as well as being nigh unstoppable). Personally, I'm taking Veterans because it's in the Death Guard Rite of War, and I'm making an elite force for Zone Mortalis so it's not as big of a deal.

 

Terminators will hit harder, survive longer, and can take more fire power. There's always the cost in points, but honestly a similarly equipped Veteran squad will cost you just as much (if not more).

All due respect, but I have to disagree. For me, Termies are better only when out in the open and close to the enemy, otherwise, it's Veterans.

 

First, so much cheaper - consider a 10 man squad of each - that's 200 for the Vets and 325 for Termies.

 

Second, equipment. More firepower? 30k combi-bolter is not a storm bolter, so yes, you got re-rolls, but that's it. Will hit harder? With Termies you're paying fir all of them having power weapons of sorts, and some of them are bound to fall before they reach CC, so again, a waste of pts, you can equip Vets similarly, and they get an extra A for having a bolt pistol handy.

 

Third: delivery system - an expensive Term unit in an expensive transport, i.e. Spartan/Land Raider, or a less expensive Vet sq in a cheap rhino, which you don't have to use, if you let's say camp an objective in your deployment zone (when using Pride of the Legion).

 

Fourth, deployment and terrain. So yes, you get an inv save with Termies, but with some planning you can get a decent cover save for the Vets, all the while keeping them much more mobile than Cataphracti.

 

Lastly, Veteran Tactics for me is THE main feature. Sniper, Outflank? That defines their role on the battlefield, and I'm all about specific units having their roles...

 

:)

[DuskRaider]

I don't know about all of that. Ten Marines, while having better equipment than a regular Tactical Squad, are still just ten Marines. I don't know about you, but I'd rather have a 2+/4++ than a straight 3+. With a Veteran Squad, you can give them Power Weapons to act as Anti-Infantry, but the most you'll have for Terminators and Armor is maybe two Special Weapons and the Sergeant with a Powerfist / Thunder Hammer. With a Terminator squad you have a ten man unit (which BTW counts as 20 in CC) who fulfill the role of both anti-infantry AND anti-armor. For 5 points they can a Powerfist. With Autocannons their range is better. Each one has a Combi-Bolter, which means that you essentially have an entire squad of special weapons (albeit one shot for eight of them). Rhinos to me have become useless for the most part with 6th Edition. It's great they're cheap, but at the cost of being unreliable. Bolter fire can destroy them now. I'd rather rely on a durable transport that will get my durable troops to their designated target area and also fulfill the role of anti-armor should I need it. Veterans have their place, but it's definitely a unit more adaptable than 10 Cataphractii Terminators, especially when your Rite of War allows you to choose between the two.

[Hyaenidae]

I've always wanted a .50 cal... They make conversions for the AR, but they're hella expensive. That and I'm in Kommunist New York. But I digress, that's not a bad idea at all. I think it was Apologist that made one for his true scale Alpha Legion using a Max Mini M249 and the muzzle from a GW Heavy Bolter, so there's also that.

Edit: just had an idea. What about a Tigrus Combi-Bolter with extended plasticard barrels and a stock?

Tried out that highlighted idea a while back, but the problem is, it doesn't look right unless the mini is truescaled...

[TheForgottenAngel]

 

 Just have to figure out how to make a Heavy Bolter look like a Marksman Rifle, lol.

 

Barrett's got you covered, brother.

http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/images/xm_109_1.jpg

 

 

Don't have to ask me twice! Saw this in the back of a MAT-V in Afghanistan! I almost creamed myself. Luckily I was able to love on it a little.

 

Also I will make a small white bunny rabit chewing on some Nightlords head just for you.

[Captain Semper]

So after some thought, I came to the conclusion that the Pride of the Legion was not the way to go... I have to revisit at some later point from scratch and with a clear head.

As it happens, I toyed around with an Orbital Assault list. Here's what I came up with: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284808-word-bearers-serrated-sun-1750pts/

I'm still not convinced that the Vets are preferable to the Termies even in this context. However in a WB Orbital assault force that you want to include a Diabolist (who cannot take Termie armour or a jump pack for that matter) you need a delivery system to the battlefield. I cannot attach him to the Tacticals because the minimum number for them is 10 which is also the maximum capacity of the Drop Pod. So I had to choose another squad (non-Termie, non-Tactical, that could leave room for an attached character). So debated between a Vet squad and a Support Squad and the Vets won. So the Diabolist gets attached to a small Vet squad and there is rum for a three-strong Command Termie squad too.

My only concern is low numbers per squad. Will a 5-strong Vet squad (tooled up as it may be) and a 3-strong termie squad by survivable in the 30k battlefields? Keep in mind the 1,750pts limit. It's a tough one.

Comments are most welcome... if it is about the tactical use of Vets make them here. If you want to comment specifically on the list, please do so in the linked thread above so we stay on topic. ;)

[Massaen]

For me, the reason you take them is the skill choice... Which for me is almost always fearless. This is such a huge bonus in 30k and with pride of the legion you have scoring fearless units with lots of options. Reliability A+!

[AGPO]

I love the idea of kill-teaming a squad of these guys, as Heathens said there's so much potential for themes. Part of me does wish that they'd combined them with seeker squads though, as fluff-wise I see them fulfilling similar roles.

[MordentHex]

take both together and watch fireworks happen! Vets gun down the characters retinue, seekers polish off the character.