Macragge's honour - What is wrong with BL?

[Zincite]

Ok from the point you're coming from I completely understand, 75£ is reasonable from that perspective.

Well, that wasn't the response I was expecting or intending. Losing the grumpy touch?

I see what you're saying, if you're comin' from there. As a book or comic this has got the heftiest of hefty prices. But I don't think it's meant to be either. Look at the style of this thing - the borders around the pages. From the pictures they've put up there seems to be plenty of scenes without dialogue. I reckon it's more of a limited edition artbook. (Limited special collector's edition available in strictly limited quantities. Did we say it was limited? Yes? Right, what about special? Did we say it was special?)

Aye but the FW books have rules and fluff. I use the FW book more than I could liberally guess at with the comic book.

Same reasoning goes for the titans, but the titans are a project that involve a lot of time and are pretty much a hobbyist's journey to its perfection.

Well... you make sense, and I don't know anything about sales or marketing, so I'm sure you know what you're saying. But so do GW, and I trust they know what they're doing too, even if I don't understand it.

Eh. Anyway. Forge World books are a different value. I used them as an example of what people can and do pay rather than a direct comparison. If people have £70 to spend on FW books, they theoretically have £70 to spend on BL books. It's possible this is somewhat of an experiment on Black Library's behalf, to see if these types of books kick off.

Titans. Well. Those might be a good direct comparison. People pay £450 because they feel it's worth it. Is the enjoyment you get out of a Titan actually worth the money? The answer doesn't matter. You feel it's worth it. Its material value demands a certain price and then its 'specialness' makes up the rest.

Is this book actually worth £75? Nope. But that doesn't matter. Will people feel it's worth it? Will people pay £20 for its material value (say) and £55 for its specialness? That's the question Black Library is going to have the answer to soon.

They are greatly missing the better parts of the bell curve.

Frankly... I dunno. I don't know Black Library's reasoning so it's hard to say anything against that, because I can answer your competent and comprehensible argument only with speculation. Like I say, I trust they know what they're doing and that they've thought this through. As speculation and to carry on with the advocating, though, what about this. Taking fifty as the price for a standard book -

Twenty people are offered two choices of books for fifty bucks each. Most of them buy a single book. Some of them spend a hundred bucks and buy both books. Or -

Twenty people are offered a fifty buck book and a hundred buck book. Most of them buy a single book. Some of them spend one hundred and fifty bucks and buy both books.

That's a little more difficult to my mind. How many people have a hundred bucks? How many people have one hundred and fifty bucks? How many people are willing to pay a hundred bucks and how many are willing to pay one hundred and fifty bucks?

What if we complicate this even more and bring it up to what Black Library is doing - with books for two, ten, thirty, fifty and one hundred bucks? Releasing several in a short period of time? Also bearing in mind that those books are in different formats? I'm tired. I can't think much further. But I reckon Black Library have thought about this and they have a plan.

... And now I'm really looking forward to spoilers. I hadn't considered that.

[depthcharge12]

 

Aye but the FW books have rules and fluff. I use the FW book more than I could liberally guess at with the comic book.

 

Same reasoning goes for the titans, but the titans are a project that involve a lot of time and are pretty much a hobbyist's journey to its perfection.

 

Well... you make sense, and I don't know anything about sales or marketing, so I'm sure you know what you're saying. But so do GW, and I trust they know what they're doing too, even if I don't understand it.

 

Eh. Anyway. Forge World books are a different value. I used them as an example of what people can and do pay rather than a direct comparison. If people have £70 to spend on FW books, they theoretically have £70 to spend on BL books. It's possible this is somewhat of an experiment on Black Library's behalf, to see if these types of books kick off.

 

Titans. Well. Those might be a good direct comparison. People pay £450 because they feel it's worth it. Is the enjoyment you get out of a Titan actually worth the money? The answer doesn't matter. You feel it's worth it. Its material value demands a certain price and then its 'specialness' makes up the rest.

 

Is this book actually worth £75? Nope. But that doesn't matter. Will people feel it's worth it? Will people pay £20 for its material value (say) and £55 for its specialness? That's the question Black Library is going to have the answer to soon.

 

 

 

You were on to something here, but I'll get sheisty and tell you that it begins to involve opportunity costs and non monetary benefits ;)

 

which sound pretty much what they are

 

 

 

Opportunity cost imho is the reason why people wont be getting this book. Opportunity cost is the next best alternative forgone.

 

I could get MH, or I could get some models from FW or the book instead for the same amount of money. Quite a lot of people find more value in the latter two options.

 

 

Non monetary benefits affect all three of these. They account for reasons why we get things most of the time. I would get a titan if I could so I can build it, model it to my specifications, and paint it in a unique way.

 

I gain enjoyment out of playing with my man barbies and painting them, which is why Ill foot the bill.

 

 

 

If I got MH, I would read it through once or twice and be done. It doesn't add anything to the universe or excite much fluff in me. But to each his own benefit.

 

 

Class dismissed.

[Zincite]

I could get MH, or I could get some models from FW or the book instead for the same amount of money. Quite a lot of people find more value in the latter two options.

Ah, I get that. Hrgm. I think I'll have to copout there. Whatever Black Library thought about that matter, if anything, I can't guess.

I suppose the best I could come up with is the 'missing out' factor. This will be a hole in people's rather long shelves of Horus Heresy books unless they buy it. That's how it's 'useful'.

Class dismissed.

Thank you, sir. It was educational. *Gathers up papers. Knocks ink pot over.*

I did just think up another point in this book's favour. During my hour of devil's advocating I've come from thinking this price nonsensical to justifying it. I still wouldn't buy it because I don't want it (point for you there, depthcharge) but I do now think its price is reasonable.

Now a fellow might come along and see this book's price and exclaim in surprise like we all have. But after a week he might begin to come around and justify it - like I have in a more concentrated hour of thinking. And all the time the fact it's a limited edition and he won't have this chance again is nagging at him. By the end of the second week he might well give in.

A normal limited edition can't have that sort of effect because when it's gone within a few hours of being released. But this book can. And it looses none of its 'specialness' because although your copy may not be numbered it will have been specifically printed just for you.

The more I think about it, the more I'm beginning to suspect Black Library of deep deviousness.

EDIT: Oh, and I'm off to bed so I'll not be able to reply. Many thanks for allowing me to stretch my brain, you lot. Do continue to wag your fingers at these posts.

[depthcharge12]

Good to play the game with you Zincite dont go tell Boreas I'm a traitor though....

If BL keeps the price at that for a while, some people can and will cave in to buy it.

Im just sticking on the people's front and pointing my finger at GW/BL tomfoolery, but with good reason. I think that they have just gotten a little too heady with the whole "best minature company forevuh"

Unfortunately with the demographic that they appeal towards, people cannot readily afford this, nor find compelling reason other than "gotta catch em all"

*goes back to reading $9.99 copy of Angel Exterminatus*

[GhostMalone]

This is the first time I'm insure on if ill purchase it....

 

I'm looking at it like this, I need more resin but I love my L/E stuff but $175 AUS is just to much maybe if it was 100-125 I would but right now I'm put off especially after the visions of heresy set

[Kol Saresk]

I can get the limited edition collector items. I really can. But for the specific medium of comic books, this is not worth the price. Everything that comparable in size is cheaper while everything comparable in price is larger. Its one thing to be "in the neighborhood". But "out of the ballpark" is just "the tip of the iceberg" in describing this.

[Marshal Rohr]

Me, as someone who is pursuing an economics major, tries to logic through BLs decision.

 

 

Its almost well past the pricing point where people are willing to pay. The demand for the product is quite elastic (though games workshop acts as though its product is inelastic despite being a niche, an inelastic is one where they just about charge you any price they feel and you will still pay).

 

 

Even the reasoning that selling less product at higher prices to get the same results is silly, especially since it sounds like it is a collector's item and few people will be purchasing it.

 

 

 

 

I stand on the verge of laughing, waiting for GW to say that they're almost out of stock from people buying this in droves, when in reality close to 0 people are buying it.

 

I can see right through your business strategy GW and its laughable.

Price discovery?

[Hyaenidae]

Mein Gott. I think I just had a mild heart attack when I saw that price.

 

Kiss my pasty-white Scottish-American butt, Black Library.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

See the repression inherent in the system!

 

I think I'll buy one just to let the poor look at it through the window ;)

[GhostMalone]

See the repression inherent in the system!

 

I think I'll buy one just to let the poor look at it through the window ;)

Challenge accepted now I'll be out $175 Aus because of you

[depthcharge12]

See the repression inherent in the system!

I think I'll buy one just to let the poor look at it through the window

How bourgeois of you :P

Mein Gott. I think I just had a mild heart attack when I saw that price.

Kiss my pasty-white Scottish-American butt, Black Library.

*throws empty bottle of whisky in solidarity*

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think it looks awesome but the price is steep.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

 

See the repression inherent in the system!

I think I'll buy one just to let the poor look at it through the window ;)

 

How bourgeois of you :P

 

That sounds worryingly early modern, and quite possibly French!

[Cerbero666]

So... 95€ for a graphic novel. I bought my Absolute Sandman for 30€ each in my country, bound in black leather and with more pages than this one. The question is not why is this so expensive, the question is what have this graphic novel to make it so expensive. I guess this is better than Sandman (30€), V for Vendetta (18.95€) and Hellboy (37.95€), just to put some examples...

[Kol Saresk]

So... 95€ for a graphic novel. I bought my Absolute Sandman for 30€ each in my country, bound in black leather and with more pages than this one. The question is not why is this so expensive, the question is what have this graphic novel to make it so expensive. I guess this is better than Sandman (30€), V for Vendetta (18.95€) and Hellboy (37.95€), just to put some examples...

That better be 116 pages given to us by H.P. Lovecraft from the Great Beyond.

[Cerbero666]

 

So... 95€ for a graphic novel. I bought my Absolute Sandman for 30€ each in my country, bound in black leather and with more pages than this one. The question is not why is this so expensive, the question is what have this graphic novel to make it so expensive. I guess this is better than Sandman (30€), V for Vendetta (18.95€) and Hellboy (37.95€), just to put some examples...

That better be 116 pages given to us by H.P. Lovecraft from the Great Beyond.

 

I don't think so, the Great Cthulhu wouldn't approve this prices. Maybe an human sacrifice or two (which seems cheaper). 

[Ordo Machinum]

Price aside, I'm disappointed in content.

 

The Fidelitas Lex is supposed to be a Gloriana-pattern battle cruiser. In MH it looks just like a BFG SM Battle Barge.

 

A Gloriana battle ship holds 9 companies, a SM battle barge holds 3 companies.

 

Unless they've retconned the WB ship class and the UM have a Gloriana class, I was looking forward to a decent source of  Gloriana class sketches.

 

Limited edition or not, unless I hear differently, I can't justify the expense due to careless artwork.

[Conn Eremon]

The Fidelitas Lex was a Gloriana-pattern battlecruiser, a Space Marine Legion battlebarge.

 

A battlebarge is not a pattern, or a class. Neither are Strike Cruisers. They are classifications of Space Marine ships that fit certain criteria and can therefore contain a whole swathe of variants, and become greatly regulated and restricted after the Heresy.

[Kol Saresk]

Wait, why is the Fidelitas Lex in MH? I thought it was supposed to be the naval duel between the Macragge's Honour and the Infidelitas Lex?

 

Also, the Glorianna class isn't specific to just one Legion. So far we've seen four different Legions in possession of it.

 

In Prince of Crows, its also been described as being a standard design that is actually rather versatile, so it is possible that it would be the archetype for the standard battle barge.

[Conn Eremon]

The STC was found during the Great Crusade, and the World Eater flagship, the Conqueror, was a Gloriana as well.

 

Not sure how many others there were, but it sounded like a big deal once discovered and put to use.

 

Edit: And the FedEx was destroyed in orbit over Nuceria. Unless this is prior to that, then perhaps it is the Infidel X as Kol says.

[Kol Saresk]

Ya, so far we've seen four identified ships of this design. The Nightfall(Night Lords), the Invincible Reason(Dark Angels), Conqueror(World Eaters) and FedEx(Postal DeliveryWord Bearers).

 

IIRC, the "blueprint" picture in the preview is supposed to be the Macragge's Honour(which could be yet another Glorianna) while the Infidelitas Lex is supposed to be an Infernus Class IIRC.

[Conn Eremon]

A lot of classes that could mean very little difference in outward appearances.

 

For all we know, the single difference between Gloriana and Infernus is the plasma drive.

[Kol Saresk]

Well the Infernus is supposed to have a big, giant gun though.

[Conn Eremon]

I honestly don't remember the details of the Gloriana or the Infernus, just pointing out that the many patterns might be different in ways not readily visible with the naked eye.

[Kol Saresk]

True true.

 

The Gloriana is described in Prince of Crows novella and the Infernus is described in Dark Creed and makes a decent appearance in Know No Fear.