Ravenwing squadron or a ravenwing black knights

[ZONKEY]

Hi,

 

I was going to get a fast attack option, I use azreal as a hq but I couldn't deside between black knights or a attack squad, I just want to smash into the enemy destroy the enemy and move ok though I do fight a lot of mechanised army

[march10k]

scoring bikes>rwbk>non-scoring bikes. so, with Azzy, go with regular bikes.

[SvenONE]

Depends on what the rest of your list is. As march said if you need the scoring go with RWAS. If you have your troops covered and points to spare, black knights are awesome.

[ZONKEY]

I have two tactical squads, two devistator squad, a deathwing squad abs a command squad, I don't have any transports or tanks

[Shubniggurath]

While the Black Knights are really nice (and brutally effective, imo), you'd probably be better with the scoring bikes with 2 meltas (you could put a combi-melta on your sarge), and if you add an attack bike with multi-melta and/or a landspeeder typhoon, you've got a nice little package to hunt tanks, especially if you're facing mechanized armies.

[ZONKEY]

Good idea I think I get the all for 300 points?

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Unless running Deathwing with them I'd be inclined to run Sammael instead of Azrael.

 

He's more mobile, can join bike squads, and unlocks a bike command squad so you've got the dakka banner on the field.

 

Once you had the requisite troop bikes I'd take a bike command squad, then either a librarian on bike with another command squad (slightly cheaper than Black Knights IIRC and don't take a slot) or Black Knights.

[ZONKEY]

Does the command squad only use 3 bikes?

[Chaplain Lucifer]

That can be answered by looking at your DA Codex in conjunction with DA FAQ on GW website.

[Tanhausen]

 I just want to smash into the enemy destroy the enemy and move ok though I do fight a lot of mechanised army

 

That's not a very good use of bikes.

 

Vehicle hunting, ok.

 

Smashing into infantry usually means you're not doing what you do best (which is being mobile).

 

Unless you go into CC to prevent return fire in the opponent's turn...but that's not smashing into the enemy to destroy them.

 

Just my experience, obviously.

[ZONKEY]

I think ravenwing cause I can pack meltas

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

Zonkey,

 

Like everyone said using Ravenwing Squad is probably the best bet and as you expand get yourself about 6 Black Knights. The Black Knights should have 2 Grenade Launchers so you can ensure you get -1Toughness or the initiative hit against the enemy then use them as a rapid response force for Hand to hand or Plasma death on something you opponent has that is big and scary.

 

I find 2 Melta Guns and an Attack bike with Multi Melta at 155 pts is a bargain and freaks out my friends. The scout move is great and if I need to I can outflank the Attack bike and let the Regular bikes have 2 Melta Gun shots and get the nice scout behind cover move then move up and smoke whatever tank needs to die. Two Squads Six bikes and 2 AB at 310pts is awesome. When they score its even better. Use them to kill a tank and then go find that objective that is off to the side and put your bikes in cover until you need to claim the objective. When you use them this way don't forget the Attack Bike's also count as scoring and they don't deploy with the regular bikes so use that to help you out. There are others much better at Ravenwing than me but I use mine always as a support unit for my Melta needs.

 

DoC

[ZONKEY]

Doc that is a great idea :), are the attack bikes desperate from the units?

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

You buy the Attack bikes together but for all intents and purposes they are their own unit. The only requirement is you buy three regular bikes with it. If I have the points and I want to go big I will buy a full squad of Ravenwing (6 Regular Bikes, 1 Attack Bike and the Landspeeder). I give the two guys melta guns and the Attack bike a Multi Melta and I give the Landspeeder a Multi Melta and Heavy Flamer. This allows me to do several things. I usually Combat Squad the regular bikes and have the Sgt go as a Objective or harassing unit depending on what I need along with two other bikes. I then have the Two Melta guns go after tanks obviously. I usually start these on the board so I have two units on the board which allows me to Deep Strike the Landspeeder and if I want I can outflank the Attack bike for a side or rear armor shot on something scary. If there is no good target then I just keep the Attack Bike on the board and keep him in cover or have him go after an objective late in the Game. The landspeeder can also go after a tank or just be a giant distraction (note killing a landspeeder doesn't take much so don't be upset when the thing dies the next turn because something looked at it the wrong way) but since I also have a Heavy Flamer I can use it to hurt some infantry preferably some scouts or something that is sitting in cover just holding an objective. These days cultists or imperial guard or some unit that relies on cover saves and is cheap is usually sitting on some far away objective that is a pain to take. If I don't have a priority target I will heavy flame the "camping squad" since the template ignores cover and Strength 5 Auto hit is nice. Hopefully it does a good bit of damage and then if you need the bike squads can race after that objective late game and if need be assault the "softened up" unit in cover.

 

I do not use it but a lot of people like the Typhoon missile launcher on their Landspeeder and use it as a Missile Support firing unit from a long range stand point. This also works well if you have the points and want some fire support. I personally use a Dev Squad with 4 Missile Launchers so I'm fairly happy but some don't like to deepstrike a Landspeeder and have it die.

 

So key points:

 

If there is armor smoke it with Ravenwing.

 

If you want Plasma I (and most people on here I found) recommend Ravenwing Black Knights

 

If there is no armor to hammer use the bikes as a Quick Reaction Force and a Remember you have hit and run so you can charge a enemy squad to slow it down and then after combat usually you can leave again so your army can shoot the squad again (this takes practice and good generalship)

 

Attack Bikes can be a good "camping" unit with a Multi Melta and Toughness 5

 

Landspeeder can be great fire support or a terror unit

 

Multi Melta and Heavy Flamer for multipurpose Deepstriking (Don't forget multi melta can be good for hurting MC's)

 

Assault Cannon Heavy Bolter for Dakka against hordes

 

Typhoon Missile Launcher with Assault cannon or Heavy Bolter depending on points for general fire support.

 

Big thing is use Ravenwing as a fill for what is lacking in your list (mine is primarily anti armor) and don't forget the can score and have multiple uses.

[ZONKEY]

Great Idea :)

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

Hope it helps let us know how it works out.

[Brother dean]

 

 I just want to smash into the enemy destroy the enemy and move ok though I do fight a lot of mechanised army

 

That's not a very good use of bikes.

 

Vehicle hunting, ok.

 

Smashing into infantry usually means you're not doing what you do best (which is being mobile).

 

Unless you go into CC to prevent return fire in the opponent's turn...but that's not smashing into the enemy to destroy them.

 

Just my experience, obviously.

Hit and run on BKs means I can kill some in HTH in my phase and at the end of HIS Assault phase, I can break away up to 3D6.  Move in my move phase, Shoot him again as needed or move to a different squad.

[Master Avoghai]

I think tannhausen talked about standard bikes.

Indeed you can crush nearly everything with BK... As someone once said : those are nothing else than gene stealers with TLPlasma and power armour! :lol:

 

But with normal bikes : one single A(2 if you charge) no +1S, no rending... You can't expect crushing anything with them.

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

No but you can annoy them Master. You know tis but a scratch.

[Master Avoghai]

Indeed you can but I took into account the OP's original wish :

 

I just want to smash into the enemy destroy the enemy and move ok though I do fight a lot of mechanised army

[Tanhausen]

That is what I understood too Avoghai...hence my "you don't really want to count on regular bikers getting into ANY combat other than to prevent retaliation fire in the opponents turn".

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

Yeah I fully agree hand to hand is not where regular bikes want to be. I have a twisted sense of humor (or just a poor one) if you're going to assault you want Black Knights all the way.

[Tanhausen]

And not even them...

 

At the end of the day, your paying 40ish points for a T5 3+ 1W model.

 

I had a game not too long ago when a grot squad shot down 2 bikes, 1 tactical and a terminator...ok, it took them 4 turns and I had plenty on my plate already (deffrollas...HAVE to stop them), but still, rolls can get stupid.

 

Imagine 5 RWBK charging into 20 IG (an extremely unbalanced scenario):

 

Casualties to Defensive fire: 0,37 bikes (I would consider it neglegible)

Hammer of wrath: 3,3 dead IG (assuming 6 bikes in base contact...being VERY generous)

Cc: 20 RWBK attacks: some 7 dead IG

10 IG hit back: Half a bike dead...for the sake of rounding, lets say 1 guy died between defensive and CC.

 

So 200 points spent on dealing with...100? You'll probably win the combat, catch them, and be let in the open to receive retaliation from the IG supporting units.

 

If it were vs 10 bog standard MEQ:

 

0,37 dead bikes to defensive

1,3 dead MEQ to HoW (6 bikes)

2,2 dead MEQ in CC

1,1 dead bike

 

So bikes win 3,5 to 1,5 (roughly) but take a HUGE risk.

 

Sorry for the number rant, but it was to support that vs "soft" units, RWBK will do pretty good (even not factoring rending and stuff like that).

 

IME (yes, experience...not mathhammering) the risk of getting a unit of 5 whittled to 4 or 3 is just too big.

 

They need to remain as strong as possible to wheather the pounding they are going to take and they are not fearless...11s and 12s do exist...and they usually hug the board edge...WAY WAY to risky for a key unit in most of our builds.

 

End rant :P

[SvenONE]

Totally echo the sentiments of not counting on RWAS to be successful in CQC.  Their best applied use would be to engage an enemy unit so that they have to forgo their shooting attack the next turn.

 

In my RW armies, most of my casualties are inflicted probably in this order (greatest to least):

 

Rad Grenade + Plasma Talon/Twin Linked Boltguns

RWBK CQC

Salvo Banner Fire

Meltaguns

RWAS CQC.

 

I've found the best way to increase your chances of a sweeping advance with your RWAS is to upgrade your sarge to a vet and give him a power sword, if you don't have the points for vet, at least give him the power sword.  You need to basically guarantee you're going to wound an MEQ unit so you can force a fall back or a sweep.  They really don't do well in CQC compared to RWBKs.  They are kind of like Wyches (really expensive ones) where they just saturate you with attacks some of which will surely kill you.  I mean we are talking about a model that can do 5 attacks on a charge (1HOW, 2A + Charge + CCW/Pistol) with rending with the potential to wound on 2s vs T4 models.

[Brother dean]

RWBK: Okay... but you did shoot at that squad before you charged it right? Plasma talons did nothing to the power armor?.. Compulsory rad grenade and Stasis grenade didn't debuff your opponent (for lowering the T for all the plasma talon wounds)? What does that do to your mathammer? Your consolidate move couldnt get you to cover? My squad of 6 ripped through 2 squads of sisters for 3 losses and were headed for another squad when the game ended.

 

I disagree with your rant most strongly. However they do have issues with castled deployment on open tables. Terrain is essential to using a bike army and you sometimes have to dance around till your opponent starts to break up his castle to go after objectives...

 

RWAS: Yeah, dont charge... Stick close to banner, Shroud and PFG where possible.