Dark angels and plasma

[ZONKEY]

Hi,

 

Just a random question why are the dark angel associated with plasma weaponry, do we use it a lot against the fallen?

[Pbenner]

Against the Fallen, we use anything, everything, and don't bother counting the cost.  They are the Fallen, that's kind of a silly question.

 

Previous Lore has shown us to have a propensity to use more Plasma, as we're the 1st legion and have access to older toys in larger numbers than other chapters, Hence our Terminators having a PC option and the like, but there is nothing saying that we're a plasma bred chapter.  

 

It's a good weapon, but has a downside.  Most don't take the Terminator option as the CML is better over-all unless you're against another 2+ Armor save army, then they edge out, but on the large scheme, not so much.

 

I know a lot of people that love PCs in their Tact squads though.

 

Paul

[Brother dean]

Lo in the dark and dim past of 1999 it was decided that the DA were not divergent enough and lo were we issued Plasma Cannons to Tactical squads where they had previously only been available to Dev's....  This was given as a sop to our feelings due to the butthurt of the raise in termi prices and thus we became the "Plasma" Chapter while the Sallies became the Melta/Flamer chapter.

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Codex:_Dark_Angels_(3rd_Edition)#.Urh429JDveA

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

According to many much "older" in this game than I one of the man reasons was back in 3rd edition, I believe, Dark Angels were the only ones allowed to get a Plasma Cannon in a Tac Squad. Now that we are the only ones able to get it in a Terminator Squad you see where this is going. Just Kidding. Anyway because of that and hence the tendency of DA to take Plasma we are the "Plasma guys." Plus it kind of makes a bit of sense when you think of it from a stand point of we hate the fallen and hunt chaos space marines probably more than other Legions. So we end up needing more plasma.

 

Edit: and Lo did Brother Dean sayeth the truth. And henceforth we named him keeper of the speech and that as they say is that.

 

Preach on brother.............Preach on.

[Bryan Blaire]

It's a situation that has grown over the years. The Dark Angels had the first Special Character in 2nd Edition (at least that I can remember) and the only Chapter Master that had a plasma weapon in his armament (Invictus came after IIRC and wasn't a Chapter Master). Then in 3rd Edition, DA ended up with the only plasma cannon in a Tact squad. IIRC, DA Marines kept being shown armed with plasma weapons (Chaplains with PP, etc) in 2nd and 3rd as well. It somewhat set a tone/trend that has continued to be reinforced almost into a theme for the DA, but they play with Melta and flame just as well as any other Chapter (bar the BA and Salamanders).

[ZONKEY]

Ah i understand it was something that started a different option for the sons of caliban and has stuck ever since even though the true reason has been lost over the ages

[Bryan Blaire]

Ah i understand it was something that started a different option for the sons of caliban and has stuck ever since even though the true reason has been lost over the ages

Which is pretty appropriate for the somewhat more sticklers for tradition DA... and DA players. :D

 

Even Caliban had a very traditionalist element there: they even tried to kill the Emperor over it.

[Brother dean]

details....

 

 

And marketh me not by my speech...  I ran across Star Wars ep IV written by Shakespeare at the scriptorium.  That and too many years being force fed the King James version by my parents...

 

And at 52 points a termie we were a bit miffed...  The 2nd edition of that codex dropped them to 47...

[Elodin]

I would like to point out that Plasma also fits well with the Dark Angels as it gives us another way to show our faith and complete unfaltering no-chance-of-any-heresy-what-so-ever loyalty to the Emperor.

After all you have to a lot of faith when you risk killing over half your special weapons every time you shoot with them. (Plasma spam is the only spam for me)


It was interesting to find out why there was so much plasma in the Dark Vengeance set though.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

They should have put a plasma cannon on the Terminator squad.

[ZONKEY]

I would of rather a plasma predator rather than the land speeder vengeance 

[Cpt_Reaper]

I like the idea of the vengeance...but the execution is lacking. Now say we ran with the idea of ancient tech because our original Legion forge is still in the Rock...and we run with it a little further than that...bit further...don't seem to recognise this part of The Rock...WOAH TOO FAR!

Here we go...

Land Speeder Vengeance armed with Plasma Storm Battery. Said storm battery may be replaced with:
- Twin-Linked Rift Cannon
- Twin-Linked Autocannon

Predator armed with Autocannon. May upgrade turret to:
- Twin-Linked Lascannon
- Plasma Destroyer
- Avenger Mega Bolter
Sponsons may be:
- Heavy Bolters
- Lascannons

Land Raider Praetor (cool name eh?)
Hull mounted Plasma Cannon

Sponson mounted Plasma Claw (basically 2 twin linked plasma guns)
May upgrade Hull Mount to:

- Heavy Rift Cannon (higher range/damage)
May upgrade sponsons to:
- (insert-weapon-unique-to-Praetor-here)

Job done?

[Augustus]

Plasma...I love it so

[Lucien Eilam]

Plasma became associated with the Dark Angels in 3rd ed to represent the fact that they're the 1st Legion and have access to relics from the very first days of the Great Crusade that other Chapters don't. At the time, plasma was still supposed to be incredibly rare - you couldn't mount it on disposable IG walkers, for example.

 

It wasn't "Dark Angels use a lot of plasma" it was "Dark Angels have an armoury full of ancient and rare relic weapons".

 

By 4th ed, all Space Marines could do it, so it had a very short life as a "unique" DA trait, and nowadays pretty much every Imperial army has free access to as much plasma as they could ever want. The "ancient and rare" focus for Dark Angels is more on their unique wargear and vehicles. Plasma talons are pretty much the only nod to it in the current background.

 

And no, they wouldn't use it against the Fallen particularly. The idea is to capture them, not vaporise them.

[Master Avoghai]

Plasma became associated with the Dark Angels in 3rd ed to represent the fact that they're the 1st Legion and have access to relics from the very first days of the Great Crusade that other Chapters don't. At the time, plasma was still supposed to be incredibly rare - you couldn't mount it on disposable IG walkers, for example.

Which is a totally crappy explanation from GW as the plasma cannon on infantry models (which was the only weapon concerned at that time) was a post heresy weapon. During the time of the heresy the PC was only mounted on dreadnought for testing. This explains why only chaos dreads has access to plasma cannon

 

Fact is GW in general and Jervis (already!) in particular, screwed our v3 codex with an unplayable stubborn rule a costly termi armour and limited wargear choice without any compensation. So they asked what to do, and at that time they were opened enough to ask to the B&C guys... From what I know some B&C guys proposed to give the only real pre heresy weapon to DA : Autocannon. GW finally chose the PC because it didn't required them to make a new model.(the vanilla might only field them in deva).

(As a side note : that was how I've discovered B&C since they gave the name of the forum in WD... Still sticked on this forum since then! ;) )

 

 

Since in v4 plasma cannon became available to every SM in tactical squads, GW had to create a image to differentiate DA from vanilla hence they decided to make every single picture, model or whatever with plasma weaponry. Since then, we hear the "plasma is fluffy" annoying remark everywhere on the internet...

 

As a member of the old APPA (anti plasma proliferation association) founded by Watcher in the Dark, I say it's not! Autocannon. All the way!

[ZONKEY]

Plasma I heard over heats on tanks :-/

[march10k]

DA dreads got plasma in V3, too, iirc. Anyway, I think you're putting the fluff before the game. DA is the dakka chapter. Our tactical squads are supposed to be the immovable object to the BA's irresistible force. This static design philosophy necessarily favors shooting over melee, hence the steady diet of shooty buffs. How GW butchers the fluff to justify the game-play decisions is a separate issue. we didn't get our plasma reputation for fluff reasons.

[shabbadoo]

And we didn't really get if for rules reasons either, until now.  C: DA 3E.v.1 didn't have plasma Tac Squads at all; only C: DA 3E Chapter Approved did, which is the version being cited here, but they were the sole proprietors of this feature for all of a few months until C: SM 4E.v.1  came out and another 1,000+ Chapters were also given the very same option.  "Our codex came out first though, so it favors us." is no kind of legitimate reasoning either.  Some cite Azrael and his combi-plasma as being indicative of plasma lurv, but we all know that any non-named Character can have a combi-plasma, just that he's the only special character that has one.  Now, if he would of actually had some sort of special combi-plasma the whole time (such that we could have been saying all along, "Look! The DA have special plasma knowledge!", well, then it would be some kind of big deal, but that hasn't  been the case. This wasn't the case in 2E either- the only special plasma weapon back then was a plasma blaster, and it was a wargear card that was limited to space marine terminators.  It was even the signature weapon of Saul Invictus, who we will note is no Dark Angel, and an extra copy of this item was included in the 2E Codex: Ultramarines/Codex: Angels of Death (which came after and was the second to last codex in that edition; Codex: Sisters of Battle was the last), didn't have any extra plasma blaster wargear card, and it is actually the Blood Angels who have a special plasma weapon wargear card in there for Mephiston (master-crafted plasma pistol), so the Ultramarines/Blood Angels are "The Plasma Chapter" then?   Hey, they had the special stuff first and all. ;)  Also, C: SM 3E Dreadnoughts had the plasma cannon option, so all throughout 3E.  In C: DA 4E there was no plasma emphasis at all, and there was no C: DA 5E.

 

Only in 6E was a conscious effort made to make DA "the plasma Chapter", as we see two unique combi-plasmas, and even two new plasma weapon variants used by two new units.

[march10k]

 

 C: DA 3E.v.1 didn't have plasma Tac Squads at all; only C: DA 3E Chapter Approved did, which is the version being cited here, but they were the sole proprietors of this feature for all of a few months until C: SM 4E.v.1  came out

 

I recall it being a bit more than 3-5 months...

[Chaplain Lucifer]

I don't think they're trying to make DA the plasma chapter... They're trying to make DA the "old relics chapter" but only giving them plasma as relics for "show and tell". They could expand alot more on that subject and in 6th ed, we do have neat pieces of wargear but still falls a bit short of what should be. They could step up the game in next DA Codex by giving us HH tech that is showing up in WH30K HH version...

[Onisuzume]

Irony is that gravity weapons would fall under the "relic" weapon category and we're not getting them.

As for Wh30K; I think we'll have to wait at least a year or two before we'll start seeing rules for the Legio I.

[march10k]

I would love to see HH tech in C: DA next time around!  Just for cool points, even if they didn't have different stats than normal C:UM kit.