3DJutsu Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 So I've had a recent string of losses here lately and I can attribute them to one player in particular. Now, Tau give me enough trouble as it is but now it's getting ridiculous. So here I am to vent a bit. We get a FAQ with quite a few pages of errata, one of which is that the 3" 4++ bubble is too OP and will not extend outside of vehicles, nor will it work for the vehicle it is embarked upon. Logically speaking, I can see this. The 3" bubble wouldn't extend outside of a landraider, but imo should still shield it. Tau and Space Marines get one page of errata which have two, maybe three minor changes on them. Tau 'buff commanders' can join a unit of space marine devastators, giving 4 LC or PC TL, Ignore Cover, and Tank/Monster Hunter. This makes no sense at all, the fluff for the wargear in question states that it works by exchanging data with Tau targeting computers, etc. So how in the blue blazing hell does with work with Space Marines? I don't see us letting Tau access our technology to link the data for the Marines to use it. Would it hurt for the Tau codex to get FAQ'd so that only friendly Tau/Enclave models receive the benefit? After all we had a faq that tweaked our DA wargear/traits to only work for friendly DA models. I'm mostly just annoyed and venting, my Ravenwing haven't been doing so hot lately. Looks like it's time for a list tweak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pbenner Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Well, This is a much larger issue being discussed all over the place; Currently multiple large GTs are working on re-writing the allies chart in order to maintain balance. Some of the ally stuff is pretty stupid; but there isn't a lot you can do about it. There are local people who I have told I will not play their cheese. If they want to have fun, bring it, but I don't subscribe to all this ally shenanigans. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 I would also encourage you to have the discussion you just put up with the person you play. Lay it out there for them and see what they say. I don't think that given what you said I would feel that it is that fluffy to play that way, but not everyone is more concerned with the story than the win. If they won't listen to a rather cogent argument regarding tech in 40K, then it's highly possibly you find that you really don't want to play that person at all. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 And to think both codices are written by the same author! Don't let it get you down. I run a lot of Ravenwing lists and Tau are actually a pretty hard counter to them if they are going heavy markerlight, especially if you aren't getting first turn. This 6th edition is undoubtedly their edition. Your best bet is landraiders really. Put a librarian/PFG in there with a banner and let the hurricane bolters rip. There are some RW/Landraider netlists out there that are pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyro X Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 I had the same problem with the last game I played. it can get alot cheesier than buffmander in a dev squad (granted that is cheesy). There does need to be some fixes happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Guys, I would not assume that GW is going to be doing any Errata'ing with the goal of "balance" in mind. It would honestly shock me if they did. I would just encourage talking to the people you are playing, see what they think about adjustments. Hopefully if you are playing pick up games, the LSBs (Local Shop Bum - don't take that derogatorily, I used to manage a store, I know all about being one of those, it's how I got the job, plus, to some extent, I think we all are LSBs) will just agree to play that way, or you could even go so far as to get a "store rules" written up for play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3DJutsu Posted December 23, 2013 Author Share Posted December 23, 2013 Yea, but the other problem is my local tourney uses RAW, unless something official comes out I'll just need to find a way to deal with it. No big deal I suppose. No worse then Eldar Star-bombs, or whatever they're called. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 I think the way I get over it is I just accept it. I do play this game for fun because I have plenty of other things stressing me out in life, the last thing I need is my hobby to stress me out -- that's called my job. I think it's better to just accept that Tau is just an outright better codex than ours. Find a way maybe to get centurions into your lists to deal with those riptides or maybe work the seldom seen vindicator in (better than LSV anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CovertToaster Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 If I'm playing any tournaments I'm allying in Coteaz with divination and a plasma spam henchman warband. It's especially for games like Tau where an abundance of AP2 shooting really annoys riptides and controlling the start of the game with Coteaz's abilities helps me out. Also dropping prescience on them every turn should negate almost all of the gets hot rolls and they count as a scoring unit so it's a win all round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3DJutsu Posted December 23, 2013 Author Share Posted December 23, 2013 Well the tax season is upon us, so I'm going to try and round out my army a bit in addition to a pair or three of Vindicators I'll be getting some Black Knights, drop pods, a battlefoam case (my motorpool isn't cutting it anymore, losing ravenwing bike poles) I plan to restart my Tyranids as well. Then I'll have a Gunline and a CC/Horde army. And if the Warrior lists are viable then I'll have 3 heavy infantry armies to choose from as well as a two Hordes. (Ok, my green tide technically isn't a horde, but might as well be for their points). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elodin Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 I've only played Tau once with my Orks and it was quite possibily the least fun game I've ever had, so I can feel your pain.I always though having a Techpriest on a bike with a Power Shield Generator/Servo harness following closely behind a Land Raider would be a good fix to that FAQ update, though it might be too many points to be viable.Take that idea with a grain of salt though, because I'm not 100% sure if it's even possible, my dog destroyed my codex, so I can't really double check my ideas sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3DJutsu Posted December 24, 2013 Author Share Posted December 24, 2013 I do that often, I think I tote around one of the most difficult to kill vehicles around. 4++ Vernerable Land Raider that gets fixed each turn? Beast mode. Made only better if it's toting a Bolter Banner on the inside. BK's escort the PFG carrier and provide beast mode support. Only once has it been destroyed outright and that was thanks to a lucky Dark Lance shot turn one. DW Upgrade saw his six rerolled into a six. \(x_X)/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafoo Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 Well the Tau are pretty dumb right about now. Land Raiders, whirwinds umm.. what else counters them? I dunno, all I know is things could be way worse. At least the sons of the lion don't have a griping thread stickied in their forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 Against tau there is only a solution... DW packed into LR dedicated transport and 2/3 WW shhoting at their troops... But not having such a list and after 3 matches without story i do with tau the same i do with eldar and i did with necron/GK with the 4th edition codex... I DECLINE THE MATCH... If the other players ask with i say him to go to complain to GW that made his army frustrating to play against and that i have just few hours of gaming every week and i want to have fun cause frustrating things i have enough during the working week... Rough and rude maybe but take it or leave it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypherthefallenangel Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 If you're allowed escalation and stronghold stuff in your games then take a shadowsword and void shield generators, and tau can suck it. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phaeton Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 Last weekend I played against Eldar with this list: HQ [ 1 ] Librarian (65pt.) Troops [ 2 ] 5x - Tactical Squad (145pt.) Plasmagun; Combi-plasma > 1x - Razorback (50pt.) 5x - Tactical Squad (90pt.) Lascannon Fast attack [ 1 ] 2x - Ravenwing Support Squadron (150pt.) > 1x - Land Speeder (75pt.); Heavy Bolter; Typhoon Missile Launcher > 1x - Land Speeder (75pt.); Heavy Bolter; Typhoon Missile Launcher Heavy support [ 3 ] 5x - Devastator (150pt.) Lascannon (x4) > 1x - Space Marine Sergeant (14pt.); Signum 5x - Devastator (150pt.) Lascannon (x4) > 1x - Space Marine Sergeant (14pt.); Signum 5x - Devastator (150pt.) Lascannon (x4) > 1x - Space Marine Sergeant (14pt.); Signum Inquisitorial Detachment Coteaz - 100 Inquisitor Ordo Xenos (Psyker - divination, 3 servo-skulls) - 64 4 Jokaero weaponsmiths - 140 Allied Formation: Stormwing Stormraven Gunship (MM, LC) - 200 Stormtalon (Assault canon, s7 ap4) - 125 Stormtalon (Assault canon, s7 ap4) - 125 Void Relay Network Void shield generator (2 additional shields) - 100 Void shield generator (2 additional shields) - 100 Void shield generator (2 additional shields) - 100 Promethium pipeline - 40 He has 3 Wraithknights, 3 Direpents, 2 spider squads, Crimson Hunter. It was a tough fight, but I won 12-8. I think this type of list can beat Tau. We outshoot them and we have 9 void shields to mitigate incoming fire, while our lascannons insta-kill broadsides and rip riptides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmo Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 I play tau and have since the mid 2000s as I was looking at the fluff of the army just like I was hooked on the DA. The Tau where a poor codex and now are a lot better but that is just codex creep ;) I see a lot of Tau hate these days that would be better aimed at "beardy power gamers" rather than the Tau codex. Also all those players who are now taking the Tau as allies to gain all their bonuses even though their armies fluff may be completely against using them as allies. What really annoys me is the allies rules and the supplements. I dont, and won't play allies. The constant power creep is causing more and more unfairness in the game and I find it frustrating to say the least. I like the fluff and background of the various races and not the competitive power gamer side - I would rather loose than to be allied with an unlikely army list. Well, This is a much larger issue being discussed all over the place; Currently multiple large GTs are working on re-writing the allies chart in order to maintain balance. Some of the ally stuff is pretty stupid; but there isn't a lot you can do about it. There are local people who I have told I will not play their cheese. If they want to have fun, bring it, but I don't subscribe to all this ally shenanigans. Paul I think along the same lines as Paul here - let us get back to the simple days of 5th - before the allies charts which is now being largely ignored with every new supplement that GW is bringing out to sell more models and ruin game balance. Even the thought of Farsight allied with Tau codex is just sooo against the fluff! Tau 'buff commanders' can join a unit of space marine devastators, giving 4 LC or PC TL, Ignore Cover, and Tank/Monster Hunter. This makes no sense at all, the fluff for the wargear in question states that it works by exchanging data with Tau targeting computers, etc. So how in the blue blazing hell does with work with Space Marines? I don't see us letting Tau access our technology to link the data for the Marines to use it. Would it hurt for the Tau codex to get FAQ'd so that only friendly Tau/Enclave models receive the benefit? After all we had a faq that tweaked our DA wargear/traits to only work for friendly DA models. This argument makes so much sense and I agree on the question of "Why should Tau wargear give any advantage to a non-Tau Empire unit??" It goes against all fluff! The Tau only allow their technology to trusted races such as Vespids and Kroot. The SM are neither allies (in the codex) or trusted! Please, please don't just blame the Tau for all this. Yes they have a powerful codex but as so many have said, they can be beaten as a stand alone army using LR and Termi lists as GW did nerf the XV88 Broadside railguns into heavy rail rifles and with a stroke of the pen cut all the anti-armour down to suicide melta attacks - damn you GW! Anyway rant over (for now). I will get back to painting DA ;) Tau'va Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3DJutsu Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 Ok, so I fought the same Tau guy again tonight and came out on top, go Dark Angels! Or rather go Dark Angels with White Scars allies. The Scouring, Hammer and Anvil The bikes, while ignoring terrain, weren't super integral to the overall battle plan, the Sternguard were wiped out by Broadside and Riptide Interceptor, and the Biker captain was used as an Arty Armour wound soak for the Black Knights. So all-in-all the White Scars performance was quite sub-par. The Black Knights however, come out on top once again, dismantling a Riptide and the attached Librarian Force Weaponing the second to death on turns 2 and 3 proved to be extremely effective. They went on to blow through a Pathfinder squad, but didn't quite make it to Broadside squad freakin TIGURIUS was attached too. (I know, right?) But made back their points pretty fairly. What won it for me was the humble Rhino. He tank shocked a FW squad off an objective (which had been run off it twice before, but never far enough). The Tau either tried to take out the Rhino or ignored it, I forget. Regardless the Rhino was now close enough to Tank shock a FW squad that was further back, and much closer to his table edge. He failed LD and ran off the board. We called the game right there. Woot? Again the Tau irritate me with the ability to simply ignore a decent sized set of rules everyone else has to follow, but I won in the end so it didn't matter. d-(^_~)z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Congrats! They went on to blow through a Pathfinder squad, but didn't quite make it to Broadside squad freakin TIGURIUS was attached too. (I know, right?) O_o dis he actually play marines as troops? Because playing only Tigurius is illegal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garath Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 So I've had a recent string of losses here lately and I can attribute them to one player in particular. Now, Tau give me enough trouble as it is but now it's getting ridiculous. Tau and Space Marines get one page of errata which have two, maybe three minor changes on them. Tau 'buff commanders' can join a unit of space marine devastators, giving 4 LC or PC TL, Ignore Cover, and Tank/Monster Hunter. Might I rain on HIS parade? Ignore cover ignores just wounds from cover (by RAW) ,not armour penetration rolls- so if you happen to have the points: Allies: HQ: Armoured battle group command tank (LR Vanquisher) with Insta kill plasma blasts,cammo netting. Troops: LR of your choicem cammo netting Techmarine to bolster defenses, or an ADL. And a Darkshroud. ADL/techmarine gives 4+ cover Cammo gives +1 Darkshroud gives another +1 2+ cover save....for two tanks that ruin anyone's day....oh yes and they have an order that forces the enemy to re-roll their cover save. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3DJutsu Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 @Master Avoghai- He did have a Tactical squad. Allied in Space Marines just for Tigurius and his rerolls for psychic powers and that other thing (Initiative?) @Garath O_O. So then... My speeders... >:D Thanks for pointing that out mate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 What i see here is that DA beat Tau only taking allies from here and there... Tau can beat us without taking allies and become really annoying takin UM allies (tigurius) or eldar allies.... Tau can be beaten by our codex without any ally? yes, but it's a very though game in wich any minimum error can cost us the game... For me 40k is an hobby and i think that an hobby should be relax and fun... If i want struggles and problems there is already the real life... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Beating them is sometimes about building a list that is unapologetically about purely wiping your opponent off the board, tweaking your lists to maximize killing power and filling the bare minimum of troop choices, after all how many troop choices do you see Tau opponents field. I've rarely seen more than 2 squads of fire warriors or kroot just sitting hidden while Riptides and Broadsides blast away. The issue I have with the Tau codex is that it IS unapologetically about shooting your opponent into oblivion and having just about every possible tool to do so. Why capture an objective when you have enough range and ignores cover weapons in your codex to accomplish that. The skyshield landing pad is an equally annoying thing when they bring it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyro X Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 plus the amount of cheese they can bring thats nigh unkillable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerociousBeast Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 GW is too busy these days writing tons of unnecessary supplements and game expansions to think about such boring things as "balance," "rules ambiguity," and "fluff." In my opinion, GW jumped the shark a while ago, and all of this is just part of the logical progression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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