CSM in a CSM army?

[Bat33.1]

To start a bit of info about me, I'm more collector than gamer of late with a liking for marine armies - I know bite me but they do seem to get more love from GW/FW than anything else ;)

 

In the last couple of years I've found CSM more interesting and less restricting than SM armies but actually working an army list out that I would like to play and possibly more important, enjoy painting is proving tricky. I have a few aborted builds that I've picked up models for and got part painted without ever finding a list/paint scheme I'm happy with. I guess the answer here is go Black Legion, not necessarily the supplement book but as an army with a unified look on the table. The problem for me is I want to use CSM but the internet and gaming friends tell me they just don't do enough for their points. Zombies, cultists, Heldrake, are where it's at for CSM. So I'm here asking for advice on putting an army together with CSM at its heart.

 

Things I have already built and painted, I have a squad of plague marines with twin plasma, khorne axe lord on jugger, Heldrake, herald of slaneesh and 10 daemonettes, 2x2 oblits, and a few bikes with melta. None of these are painted up in black legion colours so don't need to be in the army I built and painted them because I liked the models.

Things I have to build or can use in a BL list, plastic DP, 2 boxes CSM, box of raptors, Termie box, 9 CSM bikes, Huron, 1 land raider, 2 rhinos all with subtle discords chaos tracks and upgrade kits, I also have the CD dex and along with painted nettes/herald also have a soul grinder kit. I'm pretty sure I've got some noise marine bits floating around too. I don't mind picking up more bits if required but really could do with some guidance on putting a user friendly army list together. I don't want to get into a one trick pony list or difficult to play lists just something that's flexible and fun to play - oh and I'm not looking for a tourney list as that's not my thing.

 

So help! Please :)

[Sception]

I always run a pair of 10 man csm units with vets, pair plasma, generally a mix of bolters and ccweps (not paying for both, just 4-5 with bolters, and 2-3 with bp/ccw), champ with power weapon, in a rhino. Points depending, I might spring for melta bombs on the champ or a combi weapon or havok launcher on the rhino. If running huron, I sometimes drop the rhinos.

 

These units do ... ok for me. They're not great, they're not optimal or efficient, they likely don't do as much for my list as 20 cultists for scoring and 400 points of other stuff would have. And some times it is frustrating - feeling like I'm basically playing the game with a 100+ point handicap just to run the unit that the entire faction is named after, I won't lie.

 

But most of the time they do ok, proving to be a threat with their plasma, able to hold midfield objectives, or threaten enemy objectives held by lighter weight troop units. They've never felt like they lost me the game, theyve never let me down to the extent that possessed or large deep striking terminator retinues have.

 

On the one hand, your friends and the internet are sorta right. Csms are not a 'good' unit. But on the other hand, they're not so bad a unit that you should avoid fielding them if they're what you like about the faction.

[Zhorzh]

When I used to run CSMs I've had 10 guys with VotLW, 2x Plasmaguns and nothing else besides maybe CC weapons. To be perfectly honest they have never betrayed me, they weren't amazing but always performed consistantly.

[the jeske]

I use the lords and sorcs , they are csm and I also use helldrakes and there are suppose to be pilots somewhere inside , out of which some may be csm and I of course take 1 unit of havocks and bikers which are csm too. I don't use other csm .

 

the problem with csm is not that they are bad for the points they cost[at least not in a void and it doesn't mean they are good] , but all the other stuff we have to run costs so much we can't afford to run csm .

 

Besides that the "best" way is probably 10 with 2 plasma naked with no upgrades.

[chillin]

Like others have said I run csm w 10 guys, 2 plaz, that's about it unfortunately . Even starting to go with naked champ. Sometimes I'll run a squad w 2 melta and a combi flamer. Before this rules ed. and new Codex , I used to run csm's all decked out for CC , w bp & ccw & bolter w PF champ , they used to be good, but I've found in this new ed. that just doesn't work well enough to be worth the points. Pretty sad that csm's aren't really used in csm's armies anymore.

A army full of decked out csm's in their rinos and a few oblits used to be able to take on anybody , not like that anymore. leaving me w about 80+ csm figs that are now sub par troops,

[Iron_Within]

I always run a pair of 10 man csm units with vets, pair plasma, generally a mix of bolters and ccweps (not paying for both, just 4-5 with bolters, and 2-3 with bp/ccw), champ with power weapon, in a rhino. Points depending, I might spring for melta bombs on the champ or a combi weapon or havok launcher on the rhino. If running huron, I sometimes drop the rhinos.

 

 

I always run two units of 10, generally in Rhino's (even though they tend to give away First Blood). I didn't realise you can mix Bolt Pistol and CCW and bolter in a single unit like you say; is that right? Not saying it isn't I just always assumed it's the whole unit or none.

[Sception]

The option is granted to each individual model in the unit, apart from the champ, who has ubergrit by default, so yes, you can mix, though sticking to just bolters is probably better? I mix mostly for wysiwyg reasons - they were assembled back when csms had ubergrit by default, so it didn't matter what you gave the individual models.

[Chaeron]

 

I always run a pair of 10 man csm units with vets, pair plasma, generally a mix of bolters and ccweps (not paying for both, just 4-5 with bolters, and 2-3 with bp/ccw), champ with power weapon, in a rhino. Points depending, I might spring for melta bombs on the champ or a combi weapon or havok launcher on the rhino. If running huron, I sometimes drop the rhinos.

 

 

I always run two units of 10, generally in Rhino's (even though they tend to give away First Blood). I didn't realise you can mix Bolt Pistol and CCW and bolter in a single unit like you say; is that right? Not saying it isn't I just always assumed it's the whole unit or none.

 

It's quite handy, depending on circumstances.

[crucial]

Excess points go on a few ccw's

[Bat33.1]

Thanks for the replies, at least I won't be wasting my time with a couple of squads of CSM in rhinos. I guess the tricky bit is building the rest of a list to support this? Is a LR ever going to be worth it's points and what sort of payload is suitable? Berserkers with Khârn or Termies? Do chosen in a LR become viable with Cypher now? I need to do some more research with Cypher but maybe he's going to improve CSM?

[crucial]

PJ1933 - Personally a LR with berserkers and Khârn has always (apart from one particular mishap concerning a 3 way battle with filthy xenos) worked for me.

 

Now this may be due to my regular opponents or matcups.. I really dont know but a squad of 'zerkers + Khârn in a LR cause mayhem. They either crush a flank by themselves (or just occupy the enemy in that flank), terrorise the opponent into changing the gameplan around this squad, or simply tear the heart put the enemy forces leaving remenants for the rest of the list to deal with.

 

My favourite thing with the squad is the ol' multicharge. Send Khârn at one squad and the zerkers at another. Keeps them alive and fighting in combat in your opponents turn aswell as Khârn and zerkers will wreck most units in the game after a charge.

 

This seems so crucial to me that I wouldn't recommend a LR without a squad + IC inside.

 

Fill the rest with good distractions. This is where I disagree with others about rhino csm squads as they all work with the LR in bumrushing the opponents lines. They never seem to work in lists without the LR... lovely AV14 mobile terrain. In my Khorne blitzkrieg list I even use the much maligned vindicator! Theres practically not a single unit that isnt flying forward 12" on turn one.

 

Use a cheap termicide unit for the LR to free heavy slots if you have to... you jus cant have them start embarked In it.

 

Ive used a list like this in a tournament too btw and its worked well! I used it with ork allies in another tourny for the whole AV14 wall of pain. LR protecting the flank of a battlewagon while all 3 vehicles charged forward. Yes thats 2 battlewagons and a LR! :D