Ordo Machinum Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 1. Cypher can be taken in a Codex: Inquisitor primary detachment. 2. Codex: Inquisitor force may take Dark Angels as "battle brother" allies. 3. Cypher may not be included in an army that includes any models from Codex: Dark Angels. Point 2 versus 3. Error. Error. Error. Everything said is a lie. Including the previous sentence. Which means it is truth. But it is a lie... <pop> <spark> <fizzle> 4. Cypher can be allied to a Dark Angel army as long as no models from Codex: Dark Angels are used. Loophole aborted. Normality is restored. I'll be hanging out in the Enigma Chamber for a while. Or Chamber 42. Whichever I get to first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 Out of his special rules there's a nice information given in this datasheet : the existence of another second founding chapter that disappeared in the warp with one of the first SGM of the DA : the Lions sable... This provides lots of expectation of what this chapter can be (appearance, wargear available...) and the possible return ala SW 13th company... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twopounder Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 Good to see GW is still too lazy to do a proper cut and paste job. Chosen get power fists for 5 points each I like his rules though. Better than the standard "I can punch you in the face harder than you can punch me in the face" special characters that litter the books. I also like that he beats eldar at their own game, and looks good doing it. I've been thinking of making a small Raptor force using the (now completely GW sanctioned) Forge World chapter traits. He makes a pretty good match for that shooty army. Just have to drop him if I ally with my DA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 For what's worth I think probably more DA players ould field them than any other player.. we seem to be fascinated by him more than anyone else, maybe because he's the frbidden fruit. Tht said I'm very curious about the new background. Ruleswise the rumors I saw placing him as ally to other SM chapters is a "faux pas" and it's literaly as disgusting as the Necron-Blood Angel brofist. Just doesn't make sense. It's never an actual alliance, though. The rules attempt to mirror the background information: for instance, Cypher at one point impersonated an Inquisitor and took subverted his retinue to his cause for a time. He didn't "team up" with the Inquisition in the same way that Dante and the Necrons called a cease-fire in order to fight together against the Tyranids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 And to underline what. Phoebus says : don't forget that he cannot be a Warlord and give -1Ld to the allied warlord, representing the fact that he doesn't really trust him or that the soldiers have less trust to their officer following this unknown character... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 Still, the thought of a random black marine with DA makings, stinking of warp perfume just flaunting himself close to loyalist marines with a hoddy story like "my shipped crashed here and i'm the sole survivor" does not hold water with me, at least not enough to let him associate with Grey Knights... A marine command enough authority to shut up even the most inquistive IG commander, but other marines?No, that doesn't float with me. And the -1 to the warlords is not good enough.. should be to the whole army... I mean, only the warlord gets suspicious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 Well, when you see that he managed to make everybody believed he was an Inquistor (though the real one was dead for weeks), I have no doubt he could mess up space marines... After all, it may be an Inquistor in power armour... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 Maybe I'm too attached to the notion a marine doesn't cover up his battle honours, insignia, heraldry and etc. etc to not offend the machine spirit of the armor.. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onisuzume Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 Out of his special rules there's a nice information given in this datasheet : the existence of another second founding chapter that disappeared in the warp with one of the first SGM of the DA : the Lions sable... This provides lots of expectation of what this chapter can be (appearance, wargear available...) and the possible return ala SW 13th company... My own successor uses such a scenario, iirc. Of coourse, I wrote that before the HH-novels even got published, let alone this fluff for Cypher getting written. After all, it may be an Inquistor in power armour...Would be wearing a different type of power armour, due to the general lack of a black carapace on inquisitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facmanpob Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 Definitely think we are going to get Cypher in Book 5 of the Heresy series... Maybe as a Moritat ... Awesome! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 Chaplain Lucifer, I think the intent is for the player to arrive at a situational scenario wherein they can plausibly include Cypher. Most of the background material showed that Cypher aids the Imperium's forces clandestinely. In some cases, he is in disguise. In other cases, he merely shares the battlefield with the Imperials: he aids the Space Marines, Guardsmen, or what have you, but is never part of their actual order of battle - never mind their command structure! Thus, while I can't explain by what means he fooled an Inquisitorial retinue into thinking he was their master (surely it must have been more than the mutual use of a hood!), I can tell you that - more often than not - it would appear Cypher never worries about concealing his heraldry and what have you. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grotsmasha Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 In regards to Cypher's green armour, the Dataslate states that the few DA on Caliban that rejected Luther's 'message' repainted their armour. I'm only up to the wargear section of the Dataslate, but I consider my $20AU to be well spent. Cheers, Jono EDIT: I was kinda hoping for more info, colour, chapter symbol etc on the Lions Sable.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Bish Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 So glad to see Cypher back... I mean... HUNT HIM DOWN AND PURIFY HIS SOUL!!! - Bish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 Honestly, my one complaint of this dataslate is that the Fallen Leader was Cypher's by default, rather something specific to a datasheet. I know the Fallen are rare, but by limiting Fallen Leader to that specific number of units, the author removed any chance of a player inventing a "Thirteenth Black Crusade"-style army of the Fallen. Lest my motives be misconstrued, though, let me remind everyone here that, for true sons of the Lion, it's always better to capture more Fallen than less. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onisuzume Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 Is the Masters of the Dark Angels one also worth the cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 Honestly, my one complaint of this dataslate is that the Fallen Leader was Cypher's by default, rather something specific to a datasheet. I know the Fallen are rare, but by limiting Fallen Leader to that specific number of units, the author removed any chance of a player inventing a "Thirteenth Black Crusade"-style army of the Fallen. The fallen in the dataslate are only chosen without mark and gift. Nothing prevents you to use the codex CSM and declare your leader and its retinue are fallen not including them in a FW renegade list. You may also play the scenarios including Cypher using this CSM lord instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Bjoern Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 I have them all. They include some new background informations. Specially the one about Asmodai and Ezekiel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Kezek Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 For what's worth I think probably more DA players ould field them than any other player.. we seem to be fascinated by him more than anyone else, maybe because he's the frbidden fruit. Tht said I'm very curious about the new background. Ruleswise the rumors I saw placing him as ally to other SM chapters is a "faux pas" and it's literaly as disgusting as the Necron-Blood Angel brofist. Just doesn't make sense. On a personal note, I put my Dark Angels on the shelf a while ago because I got tired of marine vs marine battles. At least now it makes sense to me if someone is running Cypher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMek83 Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 I am surprised that GK's can take him... The Dudley-Do-Gooders-no-chaotic-taint-ever-in-past-10K-years... Or Emperor's Own... Well, its suits just fine for my GK's but what made me tingle was the rules and combined possibility of ATSKNF Chosens? Sweet! First time ever I watch chosen as something that I might field in the future. I haven't done but scraped the fluff in the dataslate but it looks good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 Honestly, my one complaint of this dataslate is that the Fallen Leader was Cypher's by default, rather something specific to a datasheet. I know the Fallen are rare, but by limiting Fallen Leader to that specific number of units, the author removed any chance of a player inventing a "Thirteenth Black Crusade"-style army of the Fallen.The fallen in the dataslate are only chosen without mark and gift.Nothing prevents you to use the codex CSM and declare your leader and its retinue are fallen not including them in a FW renegade list. You may also play the scenarios including Cypher using this CSM lord instead. What has always made the Fallen special, though, was their association with Cypher giving them the "And They Shall Know No Fear" rule. I get that this dataslate is meant to represent Cypher scenarios short of the Thirteenth Black Crusade, when Fallen constituted a minority of any given army - at best. I just regret that the option hasn't been given to players to actually go all the way with this theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordo Machinum Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 Cypher used to be accompanied by 20 CSM. Now he gets the "Fallen Champion" squads = up to 30 Chosen CSM. A small Fallen army, but a Fallen army nonetheless. (okay, I know C:SM can build him a bigger one. It's still cool.) Mua-hah-ha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 would it be to far of a stretch to use his rules to represent a captain for an army? I'm really happy about the options he opens up, but i'm worried about the fluff >,> and if the fluff nazis will cut my head off and put it on a pike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 He cannot be the Warlord of an army. That much is stated outright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CovertToaster Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 would it be to far of a stretch to use his rules to represent a captain for an army? I'm really happy about the options he opens up, but i'm worried about the fluff >,> and if the fluff nazis will cut my head off and put it on a pike. You know there are plenty of people who will convince their opponents to accept Cypher as the warlord, I probably wouldn't care in casual games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 would it be to far of a stretch to use his rules to represent a captain for an army? I'm really happy about the options he opens up, but i'm worried about the fluff >,> and if the fluff nazis will cut my head off and put it on a pike. You know there are plenty of people who will convince their opponents to accept Cypher as the warlord, I probably wouldn't care in casual games. So would that mean that Cypher gets -1 Ld for confusing himself? Usually on casual games it should be relaxed, but not that relaxed, just IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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