Predictions for Book 3 Legion Rules

[TemujinZero]

So the next book will contain rules for the following legions:

 

Iron Warriors

Raven Guard

Alpha Legion

Imperial Fists

 

What are your predictions for the Legiones Astartes rules for each legion?  How about unique wargear, rites of war, primarch rules etc?

 

My legion is the Imperial Fists and I'm hoping for vindicator squadrons, and also that we don't get rules that force us to rely on fortifications.  I'm also very curious about the Alpha Legion.  I don't envy them having to write rules for Alpharius.  The Alpha Legion background section is going to be very interesting.

 

My predictions:

 

Iron Warriors - Some kind of conditional stubborn?  Bonus to wound from blast / barrage weapons?  Extra heavy support ROW?

 

Raven Guard - Conditional stealth / shrouded?  Bonus to charging when no shooting casualties were taken in the previous turn?

 

Alpha Legion - Infiltrate?  Deployment tricks?

 

Imperial Fists - Conditional stubborn?  Overwatch bonus?

[spu00sed]

I'm thinking raven guard support squads might be able to take jump packs, or have their own version with jump packs so you can't have jump melta squads.

[Onisuzume]

I, for one, will be hoping for Legion I, again.

[Russ Brother 92]

I've no doubt that alongside sigismund the IFs will get a 'templar' squad as a unit (I'm thinking uber-command squad) and I agree about possible vindi squadrons although it speaks as more IWs than IFs.

[Kol Saresk]

I see the IFs as more Urban warfare than straight up siege. Although since they'll be in the Battle of Phall, we'll more than likely see some type of boarding unit.

[Surrender_Monkey]

I can see Battle of Phall Imperial Fists being differently organised from Emperor's Palace Imperial Fists, and thus having a different army list, in a similar way to how I think we'll see more chaos stuff creep into the traitor legions.

 

With that in mind I'd think more along the lines of specialist/enhanced breacher squads and terminators than siege weaponry.

[jeremy1391]

I wouldn't be surprised if the fists get some variation of bolter drill under certain conditions.

[Kais Klip]

As each month comes and goes, so does another thread on this pop up. It's a good thing my muses come and go alongside 'em, eh : )

 

To that extent I'll leave out my speculation on Raven Guard, Imperial Fist & Iron Warriors (Iron Hands already have stubborn as a Rite, and a simple USR like that is a bit drab for me), but once again on Alpha Legion:

 

I trust Bligh to leave out infiltration for the AL; that is Raven Guard zone, and belongs no more to the XX than it does to the night lords.

 

I expect an opportunity for devastatingly effective but suicidal assets, such as deploying a single squad within the enemy deployment zone. It's enough to convey the spirit of the AL; inflicting crushing paranoia on the enemy from the breakdown of agreed decency between belligerents (dig deep into the eastern side of the Cold War), without actually entering into table-flipping territory that AL deserves:

 

"I flipped your Baneblade gunner."

 

So far it looks like Bligh is a fan of the XX, and pairing that up with the festive season, we can hope that the leash of sanity is loosened enough for Mr Bligh to jazz it up a bit with the AL.

 

That's the theme I'm looking for towards personally: Achieving efficiency & results by breaking morals and rules.

[Kol Saresk]

lol, remember, the Night Lords got a special unit that relies on Infiltrate as well as a Rite of War that can enforce it.

So to that end, we might see something similar with the AL and RG. Granted, it won't be something like 3.5 Chaos Codex were it was the army theme. Rather, it will be a variant theme of the Legion. Rather, with the emphasis of vehicles painted in AL colors, we might see something related to the talk of warmachines in The First Heretic with a unit that helps "set the stage". I imagine we'll actually see something along the lines of a very, well-ordered Legion list, not the chaotic, half- ery we've been seeing in the novels.

As for the Raven Guard, there I imagine we will something that relies somewhat on Infantry, not because the Raven Guard are "space ninjas" as Graham McNeill likes to think, but because this is part where the Raven Guard are trying to survive the other Legions hunting them down. Although, I'm hoping we get to see what a Silence Squad is.

[Kais Klip]

lol, remember, the Night Lords got a special unit that relies on Infiltrate as well as a Rite of War that can enforce it. ;)So to that end, we might see something similar with the AL and RG. Granted, it won't be something like 3.5 Chaos Codex were it was the army theme.

Aye I was keeping that in mind, to that extent I'd even wager a souped up seeker squad is almost guaranteed, and while they could just slap another Infiltrate on yet another unit and call it a day, I was more going in the direction that the AL hide in plain sight while the others rely on shadows.

 

That's what would make me sigh and switch to Scars; "Here, have another alpha strike unit that would be perfectly interchangeable between Sons of Horus, Night Lords and (hopefully not) Raven Guard."

[Kol Saresk]

I don't think it would be "an alpha strike unit", but definitely something that uses those Banestrike Bolt Rounds we saw in Massacre that units with Legiones Astartes(Alpha Legion) can take. Or rather something that puts those to great use. I'm really really really hoping to see this warmachine aspect. It'd be new and different and awesome. And by combining it with the "special ops" aspect the Alpha Legion have always had could definitely create something unique. Similar to how Forgeworld actually managed to put terror tactics on the board with the Night Lords.

[Kais Klip]

War Machines definitely sound like a good idea to play with, although I've never encountered them in the books I've read so I'm not that hyped for them (should I be?).

 

I absolutely agree with you though, they're Astartes so the end result should be something going boom, but FW still have a myriad of options in the method that boom is delivered.

 

The key to success is making each method unique enough for each legion to be easily identified with (like you remarked with the NL) but not niche in so far that it restricts the legion in being played using more generic styles. The Rites are where the niches should be isolated.

[Conn Eremon]

I just hope the Alpha Legion are more portrayed like they are in Legion and their IA. That young Legion that pulls all the stops to prove their worth, going out of their way to strike out at the enemy through every avenue available, all at once. The Legion of plots and plans, subversion and decimation.

 

Not Deliverance Lost's version.

[Marshal Rohr]

The iron Warriors get a special protohavok squad and a terminator squad with heavy weapons options. So I'd imagine their rites of war focus of firepower. The Fists get a Templar swordsman squad and breacher veterans. So bolter drill and challenge bonuses seem in line

[Kol Saresk]

Wait, where are they getting Terminators with heavy weapons? I thought that was speculation for what the Steel Havocs were?

[Brother Captain Lucian]

There was mentioned a terminator squad with proto cyclone missile launchers, think it was mentioned in the gamesday thread

[Kais Klip]

Not Deliverance Lost's version.

Oh ok let's go, you crossed the line there buddy :D

 

Am I the only one that vocally liked Deliverance Lost? What was wrong, or rather off, in its portrayal of AL?

 

And where do we have the Imperial Fists info coming from (should I start being a whole lot nicer to Crusaders)?

[Conn Eremon]

Am I the only one that vocally liked Deliverance Lost?

Yes.

 

But I accept you as you are.

[Kol Saresk]

Well, to poke at Deliverance Lost, lets just say I could do a better job at impersonations than the super giants with augmented thinking processes, genetically and psyhically implanted memories and professional training. And all I do are George Lopez and Mickey Mouse impersonations with the occasional Joker.

 

Not to mention the whole "I'm Alpharius so I'm in charge." "But I'm Alpharius." "No, I'm Alpharius!" "No, I am!" "No, its me!"

 

Yeah....... Made the Alpha Legion look like bungling idiots with the mental maturity of Justin Bieber.......

[Kais Klip]

Well, to poke at Deliverance Lost, lets just say I could do a better job at impersonations than the super giants with augmented thinking processes, genetically and psyhically implanted memories and professional training. And all I do are George Lopez and Mickey Mouse impersonations with the occasional Joker.

Not to mention the whole "I'm Alpharius so I'm in charge." "But I'm Alpharius." "No, I'm Alpharius!" "No, I am!" "No, its me!"

Yeah....... Made the Alpha Legion look like bungling idiots with the mental maturity of Justin Bieber.......

Which isn't befitting a spy persona which has been staring a Primarch right in the face for a good solid months without said Primarch realising his own son's dead face?

 

Now I understand a possible issue, although I don't think its as bad as you're implying. I mean, they got the goodies to the locker room, didn't they? And the two compatriots even called the character in question an idiot and executed him out of hand.

 

We could go deeper into the persona of the Legion, and point out that they are AL legionnaries are trialed in squads and not individually, or we could say this is a slight throwback to the "arrogant" persona of the legion of old (days way before my entry).

 

Now this is a low blow, but even your vaunted Abnett wrote the legionary in Legion as losing his cool slightly a bit too fast when their safe room was blown, didn't he?

 

Thats exactly what attracts me to the legion, they're a bit like nightlords but more socially productive; both have an eyebrow raised beneath that helm when parading on Terra, but both keep parading away.

 

You have to understand that the XX legionnaries are spy astartes, yes they are Astartes first and foremost but they are also relied upon for covert actions unlike that of the Raven Guard. Astartes are essentially pre-pubescent children with kalashnikovs, its a wonder you have any politically adept minds like Maloghurst or Erebus coming through at all; types like Kor Phaeron and your average AL operative serf should be able to run social circles around a veteran Astartes until he gets thrown through the bulkhead. Having even a few operational units capable of socially outmanoeuvring not only Astartes but mechanicum and human personnel through minute mannerisms and social quirks is worth a few personality issues in my book, even if they do all that behind a helm and a loaded bolter.

 

And then a lucifer black asshat shoots all that work down.

[Marshal Rohr]

I understand what you mean by socially, and its more than likely I missed your point entirely, but I feel like the Alpha Legionary is the spider at the center of the web, and doesn't do much fieldwork outside of direct action, interrogation, or assassination. They would more than likely use regular or augmented humans to do the spy novel stuff.

 

To clarify, the people who get in contact with the important people the AL wants to flip will almost never be Astartes.

[Kais Klip]

Absolutely, and I would say nothing more than that if they were fooling other Astartes or just mechanicum personnel that don't necessarily have a lol.exe extension installed, but these guys danced right in front of Corax in his very own strategy room wearing the faces of his dead sons, give them some points!

 

And don't tell me the night lords wouldn't want some of that action.

 

Edit: And I didn't mean to say the whole legion was Mr Suave Martini, only that they probably had about a hundred guys who could out-dick Maloghurtst or Erebus, which should give enough note towards the legion as a whole.

 

I mean the legion isn't exactly pulling the... canine levels of uber either, so far most of the ops ended in glorious grimdark suicide (another personal favourite part), and for every Sheed they have the muppet who couldn't say "I'm sorry for losing the sword in a word bearer's gullet, sire, now will you please stand away from the desk for a quick pic with us vets".

[Silent Observant]

I think for Alpha Legion we will be getting the Effrit Stealth Squad, and probably some sort of terminator.

 

@KolSarek, Where are the Alpha Legion warmachines mentioned and what are they?

[Darrell]

I just want some fluff for Fafnir Rann. That Imperial Fist with Executioners iconography on his shield has been such a tease. I would be soooooo happy.

[TemujinZero]

It's good that we're getting the Alpha Legion and Raven Guard in the same book.  The same goes for the Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors.  It should encourage the writers to properly differentiate the legions.

 

If we already had access to lists for the Imperial Army or some of the other allies that are planned, I could see the Alpha Legion being able to do interesting things with their allies.  As that's out (for now) I'm really not sure what we're going to see.  Screwing around with deployment seems like something a lot of people are expecting.  How about being able to mess with victory conditions?  There probably has to be some part of their rules that has an effect on your squads during the game though.  I could see the downside of their rules being restrictions on squad leaders.  I think the biggest mystery is the primarch himself / themselves.  Maybe he can deploy like an assassin in fantasy?  It's pretty much a blank slate, at least more so than any other primarch.  I know a lot of the Alpha Legion background is going to be along the lines of 'little is known about this legion', but this book is still likely to tell us more about them than we've ever known before.

 

As for actual information we have about units in the book, the seminar at the most recent event had Alan Bligh speculating that the Imperial Fists would probably get Templars and unique breacher squads.  I think this is also the source of the Iron Warriors heavy weapons squad rumours, though I seem to remember that this was less concrete.  We also know that the Imperial Fists are getting Dorn and Sigismund.