Space Wolves foot slogging list strategies

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Hail Wolf Brethren! 

I'm looking to start a discussion on success strategies for foot slogging lists in 6th edition. I do not normally foot slog, as I really like transporting Space Wolves and getting them into the fight quickly. I would definitely like to try some foot slogging lists for fun though, and to make my self well rounded in all the ways space wolves can be utilized.

For you guys that foot slog, or have in the past... what do you generally like to do? I'm guessing there is more move out and seize objectives more so than trying to get up the board and assault, although I know there are some that like to do this...

Anyway, let's see what you got!

[Oz of the North]

you could always run a bran redmaw, to give one of your grey hunter squads behind enemy lines

[Frater Cornelius]

Terminator WGPL, preferably with stormshield, to soak up wounds.

Avoid expensives squads/characters to get more bodies on the fields and increase target saturation (with the possible exception of TWC since they are fast and awesome).

Have minimum of 2 longfang squads supporting to put up long-ranged pressure whike you march. Have good amount of redudancy.

Have a good amount of scoring dudes, were talking 100% commitment here with AT LEAST 3 full GH packs.

Alternatively you could go bloodclaw route and get 2 or 3 15 bloodclaw squads lead by tda wgpl with ss to soak wounds and possibly a RP to get those rerolls on that mass of attacks. Still need to include some GH and LF.

Wolf Scous are a great distraction for the opponent, forcing him to split his firepower even further.

That should do for a start

[Bloody Legionnaire]

I think the big issue I've been dealing with is how to deal with challenges. Since there is no concern about fitting into transports and limiting unit size, I've been thinking about including both a WGPL and WL or WGBL in the same GH unit. the WGPL is there for the power weapon attack as well as to take a challenge off of the Lord or Battle Leader. I really dislike the fact that it's not super fluffy though, any Wolf Lord would be the first to go out and destroy his foe for the Honor of the all-father and his Great Company. It's really fun to have a death star, but do you think a WL with a Frost Blade or Power Sword has his merits since, in a challenge he will at least be going at initiative? or do you think that the low initiative step from Power Axes/Power Fists/Thunder Hammers isn't something to be too concerned about? I feel like I've gotten into a few Challenges against weapons with lower strength that had some special rule that made them AP2 and ruined the day for my TDAWG leading GHs. 

[Leif-thunderstand]

I usualy give my footslodgers a Tda WG with stormshild and if it fits also a HQ. 15 BC fpr exemple with a Tda/WG that keep em alive longer and a runicpriest in runicarmor also does this job the same time he buffs the unit. maybe a troop or two of scouts to cut behind the f.l.e.t ( frontline enemytroops) if you like to do so. They could be joined even by a wgbl in runicarmor with the saga of the hunter.

[Frater Cornelius]

I think the big issue I've been dealing with is how to deal with challenges. Since there is no concern about fitting into transports and limiting unit size, I've been thinking about including both a WGPL and WL or WGBL in the same GH unit. the WGPL is there for the power weapon attack as well as to take a challenge off of the Lord or Battle Leader. I really dislike the fact that it's not super fluffy though, any Wolf Lord would be the first to go out and destroy his foe for the Honor of the all-father and his Great Company. It's really fun to have a death star, but do you think a WL with a Frost Blade or Power Sword has his merits since, in a challenge he will at least be going at initiative? or do you think that the low initiative step from Power Axes/Power Fists/Thunder Hammers isn't something to be too concerned about? I feel like I've gotten into a few Challenges against weapons with lower strength that had some special rule that made them AP2 and ruined the day for my TDAWG leading GHs. 

 

Too many eggs in one basket IMO. You can get your hidden power weapons by upgrading one dude in the GH or BC pack. If you footslog, you don't want into melee with GH (well, you would not want it anyway), thus a WGPL is enough to deter a challenge while the hidden power weapon and/or wulfen kan deal with the squad. What you want is to conquer the midfield and take it from there.

Making a challenge-winning Wolf Lord is tricky because it will cost you around 250+, which is a lot and you better build a list around it anyway. Besides, how do you want to use your WL or WGBL anyway? Solely to eat challenges? Well, I'd just shoot him to death. Unless hes a Thunderlord or in a transport of any kind, I would not build him for melee, it's wasted points.

 

My favourite setup for the WGPL when wanting to soak up wounds is TDA, SS and his default power weapons being an axe, which is free. You want to have ap2 though, since most of the characters that are a threat to you are either striking at ini1 and/or have 2+ save. Of cause there is chaps like Abaddon, but when he is in melee, the squad is done for anyway.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

 

I think the big issue I've been dealing with is how to deal with challenges. Since there is no concern about fitting into transports and limiting unit size, I've been thinking about including both a WGPL and WL or WGBL in the same GH unit. the WGPL is there for the power weapon attack as well as to take a challenge off of the Lord or Battle Leader. I really dislike the fact that it's not super fluffy though, any Wolf Lord would be the first to go out and destroy his foe for the Honor of the all-father and his Great Company. It's really fun to have a death star, but do you think a WL with a Frost Blade or Power Sword has his merits since, in a challenge he will at least be going at initiative? or do you think that the low initiative step from Power Axes/Power Fists/Thunder Hammers isn't something to be too concerned about? I feel like I've gotten into a few Challenges against weapons with lower strength that had some special rule that made them AP2 and ruined the day for my TDAWG leading GHs. 

 

Too many eggs in one basket IMO. You can get your hidden power weapons by upgrading one dude in the GH or BC pack. If you footslog, you don't want into melee with GH (well, you would not want it anyway), thus a WGPL is enough to deter a challenge while the hidden power weapon and/or wulfen kan deal with the squad. What you want is to conquer the midfield and take it from there.

Making a challenge-winning Wolf Lord is tricky because it will cost you around 250+, which is a lot and you better build a list around it anyway. Besides, how do you want to use your WL or WGBL anyway? Solely to eat challenges? Well, I'd just shoot him to death. Unless hes a Thunderlord or in a transport of any kind, I would not build him for melee, it's wasted points.

 

My favourite setup for the WGPL when wanting to soak up wounds is TDA, SS and his default power weapons being an axe, which is free. You want to have ap2 though, since most of the characters that are a threat to you are either striking at ini1 and/or have 2+ save. Of cause there is chaps like Abaddon, but when he is in melee, the squad is done for anyway.

 

I thought GH were the super awesome-amazing at everything troop unit though? You're saying in a foot slogging list, not getting into melee is the strategy?

[Sohail187]

for extra protection!! stick voidshield gen, slightly forward position so as you move across the halfway mark you still get some protection from it! on top of that add the WG with TDA and stormshield!! that should get them across. However i tried foot slogging once... and it really did not go to well.

[Frater Cornelius]

 

 

I think the big issue I've been dealing with is how to deal with challenges. Since there is no concern about fitting into transports and limiting unit size, I've been thinking about including both a WGPL and WL or WGBL in the same GH unit. the WGPL is there for the power weapon attack as well as to take a challenge off of the Lord or Battle Leader. I really dislike the fact that it's not super fluffy though, any Wolf Lord would be the first to go out and destroy his foe for the Honor of the all-father and his Great Company. It's really fun to have a death star, but do you think a WL with a Frost Blade or Power Sword has his merits since, in a challenge he will at least be going at initiative? or do you think that the low initiative step from Power Axes/Power Fists/Thunder Hammers isn't something to be too concerned about? I feel like I've gotten into a few Challenges against weapons with lower strength that had some special rule that made them AP2 and ruined the day for my TDAWG leading GHs. 

 

Too many eggs in one basket IMO. You can get your hidden power weapons by upgrading one dude in the GH or BC pack. If you footslog, you don't want into melee with GH (well, you would not want it anyway), thus a WGPL is enough to deter a challenge while the hidden power weapon and/or wulfen kan deal with the squad. What you want is to conquer the midfield and take it from there.

Making a challenge-winning Wolf Lord is tricky because it will cost you around 250+, which is a lot and you better build a list around it anyway. Besides, how do you want to use your WL or WGBL anyway? Solely to eat challenges? Well, I'd just shoot him to death. Unless hes a Thunderlord or in a transport of any kind, I would not build him for melee, it's wasted points.

 

My favourite setup for the WGPL when wanting to soak up wounds is TDA, SS and his default power weapons being an axe, which is free. You want to have ap2 though, since most of the characters that are a threat to you are either striking at ini1 and/or have 2+ save. Of cause there is chaps like Abaddon, but when he is in melee, the squad is done for anyway.

 

I thought GH were the super awesome-amazing at everything troop unit though? You're saying in a foot slogging list, not getting into melee is the strategy?

 

They are superior to most troops in game, but the SW strength is midfield. Think about it: due to counter-attack you have the same amount of attacks during the charge and when you are charged. Second, the Wolf Standard can help you with overwatch as it lets you reroll all 1s. Thirdly, they might be awesome, but they will still die against a dedicated assault unit with ap3 or better. So wouldn't it be better to spray 'em with rapid fire and Special Weapons and then Overwatch? They will have a lot less bodies.

 

HAVING SAID THAT, you will get a feel for it when it is better to assault and when to stay put. Sometimes I will charge with GH, either because it will be a guaranteed win (like say against a Tactical Squad or Dire Avengers or Necron Warriors) or because I want to protect them from the following shooting phase. But even that should only be done when the enemy gets to close to you. You should never go out of your way to charge with GH, that is my point.

 

As for footslogging? Any more or less fast and/or shooty army will kill them before they arrive. Eldar can run shoot, thus you will never get into melee and it's better to rapidfire them to hell. Against Tau... well, you will never get into melee. Against Daemons? You do not want to be in melee. Against Orks? They will come to you and you can either counter-charge or charge when you are close to abuse your higher initiative. It will still be beneficial to you to soften them as they approach. Against Marines? 3+ is a pretty good save in melee (your hidden power-weapon notwithstanding), so you will be better to rely on your double special weapon to thin them. Against Termies? Again, soften them.

This is also why long ranged support is important for footslogging. You will need to thin the enemy or your GH will take too many losses and will not stand.

 

Remember, GH are awesome, but they aren't /godmode ;)

[skeletoro]

IMO, Wolf guards' special weapons etc are too valuable to use them to soak up wounds, typically.

 

Against anything other than AP3 (and leaving aside some corner cases such as the effect of a wolf standard), they are at best only twice as durable as a 15 point grey hunter, but they are over twice the price once you've given them TDA. I don't think storm shields usually help that situation because it pushes them over 3x the price of a grey hunter - while leaving them still only twice as durable as a grey hunter vs most enemy fire. So you're wasting points using them as an ablative shield most of the time. And given their usefulness (Ld 9, power weapon, possible combi or heavy weapon) much of the time they will be more useful than 2 grey hunters. Why sacrifice your power axe model for the sake of two grey hunters? That's not often going to be a great trade off, neither in points nor in expected future model utility.

 

Against shooting casualties you don't have very fine grained control over who gets hit. If you put a model out front to soak up krak missiles, they will also soak up lascannon and bolter fire too (and look out sir will only partly mitigate this).

 

So I'd suggest that you normally don't want your TDAWGPL out front. There are exceptions, such as immediately before activating a wolf standard and assaulting, but they are atypical cases.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

IMO, Wolf guards' special weapons etc are too valuable to use them to soak up wounds, typically.

 

Against anything other than AP3 (and leaving aside some corner cases such as the effect of a wolf standard), they are at best only twice as durable as a 15 point grey hunter, but they are over twice the price once you've given them TDA. I don't think storm shields usually help that situation because it pushes them over 3x the price of a grey hunter - while leaving them still only twice as durable as a grey hunter vs most enemy fire. So you're wasting points using them as an ablative shield most of the time. And given their usefulness (Ld 9, power weapon, possible combi or heavy weapon) much of the time they will be more useful than 2 grey hunters. Why sacrifice your power axe model for the sake of two grey hunters? That's not often going to be a great trade off, neither in points nor in expected future model utility.

 

Against shooting casualties you don't have very fine grained control over who gets hit. If you put a model out front to soak up krak missiles, they will also soak up lascannon and bolter fire too (and look out sir will only partly mitigate this).

 

So I'd suggest that you normally don't want your TDAWGPL out front. There are exceptions, such as immediately before activating a wolf standard and assaulting, but they are atypical cases.

What makes you think I was going to use a TDAWG as a shield? ;)

 

In my thinking, there would be a big nasty TDAWG WL, and another WG.. Cheap PAWG even, for accepting a challenge. 

[skeletoro]

I think I was replying to Immersturm's mention of using a stormshield for extra wounds. I fired and forgot though so can't be sure. ;)

[Frater Cornelius]

You are right, they can be expensive, but in my experience they save more points worth of GH than they are worth it. Also, soaking up wounds ain't the only purpose. You also can hold them back and use to issue and accept challenges. That way the IC and hidden weapon can do their thing. In the end, you have to see what kind of opposition you have.

[Kassill]

I usualy give my footslodgers a Tda WG with stormshild and if it fits also a HQ. 15 BC fpr exemple with a Tda/WG that keep em alive longer and a runicpriest in runicarmor also does this job the same time he buffs the unit. maybe a troop or two of scouts to cut behind the f.l.e.t ( frontline enemytroops) if you like to do so. They could be joined even by a wgbl in runicarmor with the saga of the hunter.

Wait, did they finally fix that where you could take Runic Armor and SoH? Or is it still up for debate RAW/RAI?

Also, you guys are a lot braver than I running footslooging lists. I've always wanted to do a "grey tide" but my main opponent plays Eldar and by the beard of odin they have a frak ton of AP2-3

Guess it comes down to what types of armies you play against.

[Leif-thunderstand]

The saga of the hunter fits the runic armor as much as i know. It just doesnt fit TDA.

[Schertenleib]

There are those that argue that Runic Armour is not Power Armour therefore you can't take Saga of the Hunter.

 

I'm not one of them

[Kassill]

There are those that argue that Runic Armour is not Power Armour therefore you can't take Saga of the Hunter.

 

I'm not one of them

 

 

I'm not either, it's just last time I brought it up I got a lot of flakk about it. Was just wondering if there had been a recent faq on it or something.

[Leif-thunderstand]

Somehow runic armor seems to be an poweraror to me. Its just mastercraftet and sealed with runes by a runepriest. ... If my oponent doesnt like it that way i may give that chap sotbs instead soth or let the runic armor count as powerarmor (depending how i slay this oponent more powerful)

[Bloody Legionnaire]

I usualy give my footslodgers a Tda WG with stormshild and if it fits also a HQ. 15 BC fpr exemple with a Tda/WG that keep em alive longer and a runicpriest in runicarmor also does this job the same time he buffs the unit. maybe a troop or two of scouts to cut behind the f.l.e.t ( frontline enemytroops) if you like to do so. They could be joined even by a wgbl in runicarmor with the saga of the hunter.

Wait, did they finally fix that where you could take Runic Armor and SoH? Or is it still up for debate RAW/RAI?

Also, you guys are a lot braver than I running footslooging lists. I've always wanted to do a "grey tide" but my main opponent plays Eldar and by the beard of odin they have a frak ton of AP2-3

Guess it comes down to what types of armies you play against.

I agree, I don't know how I feel about the lack of mobility, but I figured I would give it a try. I guess cover, cover, cover is the key to success against the much AP2 and AP3.. I played against Eldar once, twas not cool at all. Especially that one missile that Eldars devastator equivalent unit have that ignores cover. Ate my long fangs for lunch.

[Frater Cornelius]

Given the amount of cover ignoring shenanigans, I would not solely rely on it. Trust me, my White Scar buddy thought he could stand against my SW/Tau with his improved jink save. He was either flooded by wounds so he failed them eventually or I just stripped his cover with Shas'O, Markerlights and Perfect Timing from my Rune Priest. Your biggest defense IMHO when footslogging is numbers. The more bodies you bring the less focus fire will there be and the less casualties you take per shot. That and long ranged shooting to bring early pressure. So keep it cheap and walk your way over there! :D

[Leif-thunderstand]

Definitly! Thats the point why to chose BC troops. They can be up to 15 plus wg(may tda) plus independent charakter. So 17 is a lot for spacemarines. Also i use fenrisian wolves as fast attack, for still the reason immersturm sayd: keep it cheep.... And Mass brings Bass..

 

Then you have to run-hide-run from cover to cover. Thats what even real war works like.