Legions that eventually decided to use chaos

[Deathwatch/Grey knight]

Does anyone have any knowledge on why and when the night lords and alpha legion welcomed chaos becaus as I understand it the night lords shunned the word bearers at the drop site even curze after lorgar was attacked critizised it so

 

What happened

 

Same with alpha legion what made them welcome it

[Lucien Eilam]

I'm not sure, as Legions, they did. There are stories set in 40k featuring Night Lords and Alpha Legion where they're fully turned to Chaos, stories where they use Chaos but don't seem to worship it, and stories where they're simply renegades.

 

So some Night Lord/Alpha Legion Space Marines/Warbands turned to Chaos, others didn't.

 

As for why those warbands that embraced Chaos did so, it's the same as any other: power, greed, desperation, deception, warp corruption, sudden religious epiphany, etc. As many stories as there are Chaos Space Marines.

[Kol Saresk]

The Night Lords shunned physical corruption. And they also shunned religious worship. However they craved physical power. In time, their greed overwhelmed their revulsion and more than a few began to make pacts. This resulted in possessed and even daemon princes in more than a few cases. Not entirely too sure of a "when", just sometime after the shattering at Tsalgualsa, which is like 100 years after the Heresy ended IIRC.

[Quixus]

For the Alpha Legion I'd say, it was never really taboo. With their by any means necessary attitude, I don't see how they would categorically prohibit the use of sorcery or daemons. When or even if they became pawns to the ruinous powers, has not been confirmed AFAIK.

[Wade Garrett]

Not this again.

 

The Alpha Legion were never "secret loyalists", considering their commitment to helping Horus torch Terra and place himself on the throne.

 

At best they were "secretly anti-Chaos" and by M41 that's fallen apart as well, given the number of mutants and daemon princes among their ranks.

[Lucien Eilam]

The question isn't about loyalty, it's about Chaos. Being a traitor isn't precisely equivalent to being a Chaos worshipper, especially at the start of the Heresy. And just because some Alpha Legion harbour mutants and daemon princes in their ranks in 40k, it doesn't mean they all do.

[Conn Eremon]

It doesn't matter what your original intentions are. If you spend ten thousand years in the Warp, you are Chaos. Unless you're Space Wolves, but that is a subject for a different argument.

 

The Night Lords and Alpha Legion might not worship it, they might not all utilize it or been changed by it, but they are one and all corrupted by it.

[Quixus]

It doesn't matter what your original intentions are. If you spend ten thousand years in the Warp, you are Chaos. Unless you're Space Wolves, but that is a subject for a different argument.

[Joke]I bet Gaunt and his Ghosts could pull it off[/Joke]

The Night Lords and Alpha Legion might not worship it, they might not all utilize it or been changed by it, but they are one and all corrupted by it.

I agree, but who is not? Can you even tell? Doesn't all those "better safe than sorry" measures to contain corruption also feed the Ruinous Powers?

[Kais Klip]

Which warrants a reminder of Chaos =/= Big Four, and while it wouldnt be entirely correct to labelg absolutes to chaos such as good and bad, there are "good daemons" out there.

 

I mean the Khan, had he lived, would be a pretty good represenation of chaos in his attitude; neither good or bad, just a spanner in the works.

 

Once again, to cover the XX legion's arse, Renegade =/= Chaos =/= Big Four

 

And once more, because I'm feeling coy, remember the legion's epiphet of walking two contradictory paths to form a beneficial third outcome.

 

So did that daemon prince just eat the Big E's remains, after slaughtering all of Terra? Yep. Is he a closet loyalist? Yea- maybe not. Is the legion still a closet loyalist? Yes.

 

Am I a deluded fan boy? Absolutely. But once more, thats why no one likes double agents; they play for the third side, themselves.

 

Edit: I'm feeling a bit reasonable, so ill add this in; if we take what we know so far about the AL as terminal, and there is no more fluff to add to it, no civil war or 35m stuff, then I think it would be extremely reasonable to say the legion in the 41m is a bit like that anonymous hacker network, in the way that both are so compartmentalised that no one knows what is going on in the large scheme of things, thus it is incorrect to take the whole as one.

 

Sort of like asking if Astartes are loyal.

 

The only thing worth asking then, to my mind, is the loyalties of A, and O.

[Kol Saresk]

Idk, we haven't seen any "good daemons" and there is some reasonable debate that the one good warp entity we've seen in print might not have been quite so good.

 

But Chaos with a capital C does equal the Primordial Annihilator in all(Think Nyralhotep with the One Thousand Aspects) its guises and myriad forms. chaos with a little c is a different story. chaos does not necessarily power Chaos. But Chaos is Chaos and chaos is chaos. The two intermingle but are separate. Chaos creates about as much order as it does chaos.

[Wade Garrett]

The Ruinous Powers are called that for a reason.

 

Sure, righteous anger, cleverness, enjoying the finer things in life, and an acceptance of one's own mortality are good things in and off themselves.

 

But Chaos is all about taking them and...you can't even say going to the next level, because that implies you stop there, and Chaos is all about never stopping, never being content.

 

Khorne gives his champions war, but never victory. Because if they were to finally triumph over all their enemies, the blood would cease to flow.

[Onisuzume]

It doesn't matter what your original intentions are. If you spend ten thousand years in the Warp, you are Chaos. Unless you're Space Wolves, but that is a subject for a different argument.

Or Dark Angels, if my sources about that Cypher dataslate are correct.

Which warrants a reminder of Chaos =/= Big Four, and while it wouldnt be entirely correct to labelg absolutes to chaos such as good and bad, there are "good daemons" out there.

Like the big 5th Malal? xD

[Kol Saresk]

IIRC, Cypher is still ambiguous is he not? I mean , even the Alpha Legion has fought alongside Loyalists.

[Onisuzume]

Supposedly, there's a DA-successor chapter which is busy pulling off a 13th Great Company.

Haven't managed to buy the dataslate yet though, so it might be slightly off.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

And it's important to remember that the warp is tricksy - for some it's been only a matter of a few centuries :)

[Kol Saresk]

And for some, like Zso Sahaal, a literal ten thousand years.

[Wade Garrett]

And for some, like Zso Sahaal, a literal ten thousand years.

Well, his ship was in an eldar spell bubble that was stranded in the Warp.

 

That much space magic had to have some effect on how time passed.

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

And for some, like Zso Sahaal, a literal ten thousand years.

Well, his ship was in an eldar spell bubble that was stranded in the Warp.

 

That much space magic had to have some effect on how time passed.

It was enough time for a ship that houses thousands and is on patrol for say, decades at a time, to run out of food. And then enough time for those thousands to die out, most likely after resorting to cannibalism. And then for their bodies to turn to dust in a well-regulated atmosphere. I'd give it at least two millenium.

[Conn Eremon]

Unless everything within the bounds of the ship underwent a speedier passage through time and the whole thing lasted a mere three minutes. Because magic.

[Onisuzume]

Time inside the warp is literally quite screwed up.

Local time and actual time passage can be insanely different.

There's been instances of fleets going back in time by a decade or more.

[Kol Saresk]

Yeah, but with Zso Sahaal we have enough evidence to point to a serious amount of time passing inside the warp bubble.

[Conn Eremon]

Unless Chaos went lolrandumb and Zso Sahaal is actually younger coming out, but is made to believe a lot of time has passed by his future self doing things to prevent a certain event from coming about, which we know nothing about because he was successful.

 

Why do you hate success, Kol?

[Kol Saresk]

Because, in a universe of grimdark, success equals happiness. All must suffer. All must burn.

 

:D

[helterskelter]

BURN MAIM KILL BURN MAIM KILL

[Phoebus]

Supposedly, there's a DA-successor chapter which is busy pulling off a 13th Great Company.

Haven't managed to buy the dataslate yet though, so it might be slightly off.

 

It's not quite like that.

 

 

During the Forgotten Wars, half of the Dark Angels and the Angels of Redemption, three companies of the Angels of Vengeance, and the entire Chapter of the Lions Sable entered the Eye of Terror to fight the Fallen and capture Cypher on the twin planets, Cocytus I & II.  Warp storms quickly drew over the twin planets and Cypher warned the Unforgiven to depart before they were trapped. Begrudgingly, the Dark Angels and their brethren left - except for the Lions Sable, who refused to retreat, and the Supreme Grand Master and his bodyguard, who decided not to leave them there.

 

The returning Unforgiven had been in the Eye of Terror for only a few years by their reckoning, but in truth over a thousand years had passed. When the Warp storms cleared up, another task force was sent to rescue the Lions Sable and the Supreme Grand Master, but the Cocytus planets had disappeared.

 

In the meantime, Cypher had returned from the Warp and send a message to the Dark Angels that led them to an abandoned cathedral.  There, he left for them the Lion Helm and the Sword of Secrets - proof that their Supreme Grand Master had been lost.

 

So we don't really know what happened to that Chapter.  They could be pulling off a 13th Great Company... or they could all be dead.  Either way, it's a story that illustrates that Cypher is not necessarily an enemy to the Dark Angels.