Land Raider...Redeemer or Crusader ?

[Bloodblade]

Greetings Brothers;

 

I am adding a land raider to my army and am trying to decide whether it should be a redeemer or a crusader. I already have a redeemer and it has served me well, I also have a spartan which does not see as much play due to many lower point games recently. I don't want to magnetize as I find the bits are always falling off / getting lost.

 

The crusader would give me volume of fire and ability to carry more death company. The redeemer gives no cover saves if it gets close enough to unload with its flame cannons which is looking good due to lots of demon players cropping up in my meta.

 

What are the thoughts of my more experienced brothers ?

[SnorriSnorrison]

While I'd advise against flamestorm cannons on Baals, I'd give them a go on the Land Raider. Generally better armour, transport capacity so you want to be up close and spirit of the machine yaddayadda so you're guaranteed to move towards the enemy. Just be careful of lance weapons and those pesky Tau railcannons.

 

For a higher amount of shots I'd rather take two Baals, which are fast. The redeemer, as you said, ignores cover and Power armour and is a very nasty thing once it gets close.

 

Snorri

[Frater Cornelius]

Redeemer is only effective when it's in melta range and being in melta range is not where a LR wants to be. I'd go with the crusader simply because it has better range combined with greater capacity.

[Sanguine Eternal]

Landraiders ceramite plating ignores the whole 2d6 armour pen on melta weapons do they not?

[Rafen IX]

Isn't that an upgrade just for the spartan?

[Sanguine Eternal]

My bad, it's for the storm raven.  I thought I saw ceramite plating on a LR entry somewhere once.  You're probably right about an upgrade for the spartan though.

[Frater Cornelius]

The only LR that ignores melta (and lance) is the Achilles.

[SnorriSnorrison]

Redeemer is only effective when it's in melta range and being in melta range is not where a LR wants to be.

 

I realise that, however the turn the LRR arrives at the lines you should have more armour up front, dreads, rhinos, Baals, as well as infantry, to engage/destroy the melta-toting models/units. Putting a single vehicle in the face of the enemy will obviously see it destroyed by the end of the turn, so you'd better put more targets right up in his face. Suits the Legion, anyway.

 

The extra transport capacity is, in my opinion, only of concern when you're embarking terminators, and if you want to use the LRC as a transport, it's going to be in melta range anyway.

Sure, you get some twin-linked boltguns to shoot 1 or 2 turns if you're lucky, but they're not too much of a threat 6 shots at medium range, 12 at short range. The Flamestorm Cannons, however, are a big threat to any army except all Terminator/Sanguinary Guard armies, while their effectiveness is based on the squad size and positioning.

 

I do believe that Land Raiders have that spearhead role, to rush forward, guns blazing, and draw attention to them. AV14 is a tough nut to crack while on the way in, and when in close quarters, I'd rather have something that ignores cover and Power Armour than another bolt weapon, even if those round up to 6 twin-linked shots per sponson. We have Baals for that, which are faster, can out flank and are generally easier to hide in cover, so I'd rather take the Baal for the dakka and a LRR for transportation/burning heretics/witches/aliens. 

 

 

Snorri

[Frater Cornelius]

If you want spearhead, then you want something mildly intimidating at all ranges, not something that will only become relevant once it reaches the front lines, alternatively the achilles as they won't kill it as fast. The other problem with the redeemer is that if it scores a crew shaken/stunned, then its main advantage is neutered seeing as you can not snapfire template weapons if I remember correctly.

[SnorriSnorrison]

If you want spearhead, then you want something mildly intimidating at all ranges, not something that will only become relevant once it reaches the front lines, alternatively the achilles as they won't kill it as fast. The other problem with the redeemer is that if it scores a crew shaken/stunned, then its main advantage is neutered seeing as you can not snapfire template weapons if I remember correctly.

 

A valid point, the flamestorm cannons cannot be used when shaken/stunned. I think you can still fire one because of the Machine Spirit thing, which let's you fire a weapon at normal BS, so no restrictions on this one.

 

to the OP:

Since you already seem to have a Redeemer, I'd rather be done with it or add the Crusader. Even though you don't seem to like that route, I'd just magnetise all that stuff - the assault cannon, the mutli-melta, and both side sponsons, and swap them out however you see fit. ;)

 

 

Snorri

[Bloodblade]

Thank you for the input brothers. Food for thought...

[Dafoo]

My vote is Crusader all the way. First point, I think the Flamers look stupid being in the front slots on the the models chasis. Second point when you get in close enough to use flamers you are already sending troops out the doors. So you are either A, deploying troops in the way of your flamers or B, deploying flamers at weird angle to avoid your troops. Third Point, More models means more Death Company do I need to say more here? Fourth point, longer range means that you get more mileage out of your vehicle even if all you do is snapfire those bolters every turn. Who cares that random wound can show up and help out, where as if you don't fire your extra weapons who knows what could have turned up. Point 5, Ignoring cover only matters if you are close enough to fire your weapon. Against a gunline army or anything with an abundance of obstacles how often is this going to happen? Point Six, Snapfire on Crew Stunned/Shakened. Point Seven Less points means you can afford that Meltagun I know you were going to put on there anyways. Point Eight, the extra shots add up especially in conjunction with our Baals.

 

Just my two cents. Either way they are a lot of fun.

[Midnightmare]

Its a tough choice, but Redeemer for me unless I plan a really large DC onboard; the flamestorms are purest awesome. Don't forget the multimelta though - even with one it is only the same price as the Phobos/Crusader.

[Kanis]

I've played and was known for a Crusader of mine for a long time, but honestly the Hurricanes as of late don't do as much as Flamestorms, as I'm booking it along top speed; but, if the tank /does/ survive to the front lines then they've got serious problems from Machine Spirited AP3 templates, and you still keep that awesome-cannon and multi-melta! They're both great variants, but I feel the LR isn't known for its guns, but more for its hide and now endangered species of "Assault" vehicle status! Just my thoughts!