3DJutsu Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Had a situation pop up tonight. When a Daemon Prince takes to the air, he is now Flying. He can only be hit by Skyfire and Snap Shots. Ok, it's in the rules, got it. That same Daemon Prince is behind a 1 story Building, blocking LoS from anything that has Skyfire in my Army. Huh? I thought it was flying? I argue that since it's flying I would technically have LoS to it just as I would any other flyer in the air, he says no since it's a model thats on the ground... it just happens to be flying. Is there anything in the rules that prevents him from doing this? Benefiting from both the Flying rules AND, being 'land-based', use low-height terrain (1-story buildings, Land Raiders, etc) to block LoS? Remember, as per the rules I need to see body to shoot him, wings don't count. I'm calling cheese. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285160-fmc-and-how-to-see-them-if-theyre-flying/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 It's legal yet annoying, one of the many things wrong with FMCs and the whole inclusion of flyers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285160-fmc-and-how-to-see-them-if-theyre-flying/#findComment-3558773 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disruptor_fe404 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Correct, Flying Monstrous Creatures can hide behind terrain. In return, they can crash to the ground when someone markerlights them in the eyes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285160-fmc-and-how-to-see-them-if-theyre-flying/#findComment-3558794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 You can also "fly them high" while gaining a cover save from area terrain they are in (technically flying over). yes its silly, but works for flyers too. They are flying yet "only" 8-10 inches off the ground, so can still hide behind a tall building. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285160-fmc-and-how-to-see-them-if-theyre-flying/#findComment-3558828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 It is true line of sight. They are also considered "swooping", so that means they are flying up, over and down around buildings and terrain. The bigger FMCs have flying bases because they are actually flying over stuff constantly, as opposed to a Daemon Prince who would fly low and fast, only gaining altitude to clear tall things. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285160-fmc-and-how-to-see-them-if-theyre-flying/#findComment-3558866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
3DJutsu Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 · Hidden by DarkGuard, January 2, 2014 - spam? Hidden by DarkGuard, January 2, 2014 - spam? Rabble rabble rabble. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285160-fmc-and-how-to-see-them-if-theyre-flying/#findComment-3558890
Gideon999 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Consider it KOTE flying (Knap of the earth). This is a tactic used by modern day helicopter pilots to defeat LOS and detection/attack. Essentially they fly as close to the ground as humanly possible while still moving at full speed. An FMC would have an easy time of this (think of how easy it is for birds to weave between buildings and such) as would flyers (since they are piloted by elites, such as space marines with enhanced reaction time and such). They are still hard to hit as the speed they move at makes them difficult to track, not so much altitude. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285160-fmc-and-how-to-see-them-if-theyre-flying/#findComment-3559121 Share on other sites More sharing options...
3DJutsu Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 Ok, 'logically' speaking, I can see the Flyer benefits coming from speed as opposed to altitude then. As an additional point, the 'Flyrant' box set has the Tyrant actually in the air, would it be considered 'modeling for advantage' if it was 'on the ground' on it's base to reduce it's silhouette? Thereby gaining an advantage (however situational) by being able to block LoS with intervening terrain that would not block LoS for a normally modeled Flyrant? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285160-fmc-and-how-to-see-them-if-theyre-flying/#findComment-3559139 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 The Tyrant is actually curled up on his tail. I've seen a few kits that were magnetized and had either the normal feet or tail-leap feet as the player didn't always want it to be a FMC. Personally I think the difference is minimal. Just as a Tyrant could be leaping without wingshe could have landed with wings and be stomping around. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285160-fmc-and-how-to-see-them-if-theyre-flying/#findComment-3559399 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Ok, 'logically' speaking, I can see the Flyer benefits coming from speed as opposed to altitude then. As an additional point, the 'Flyrant' box set has the Tyrant actually in the air, would it be considered 'modeling for advantage' if it was 'on the ground' on it's base to reduce it's silhouette? Thereby gaining an advantage (however situational) by being able to block LoS with intervening terrain that would not block LoS for a normally modeled Flyrant? I certainly wouldnt call them on it, particularly since theres many old Tyrants with a pair of balrog wings slapped on for good measure. Unless theyre going out of their way to make it tiny by using the wrong model, or laying it horizontal I just dont see a case. I think the solutions going to have to come from different tactics. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285160-fmc-and-how-to-see-them-if-theyre-flying/#findComment-3559458 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I think the solutions going to have to come from different tactics. +1 Using terrain is not cheese, it is what we are supposed to be doing. In turn, focus fire on what you can see. Eliminate his troops and don't waste shots at tough models in cover. Keep your own forces in cover for most of the game, be patient and don't let his hiding draw your troops out. Move on objectives late. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285160-fmc-and-how-to-see-them-if-theyre-flying/#findComment-3559582 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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