Garath Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 The rule, more or less... When moving a Tank, the player can declare that it is going to attempt to Tank Shock instead of moving normally. "To perform a Tank Shock, first turn the vehicle on the spot to face the direction you intend to move it and declare how many inches the vehicle is going to move, up to its maximurn speed. The vehicle must move at least Cornbat Speed Note that, because pivoting on the spot does not count as moving, this is not enough for a Tank Shock. Once the Tank has been 'aimed' and the intended distance declared, rnove the Tank straight forwards until it comes into contact with an enemy unit or it reaches the distance declared." This reveals the basic concept- declare how many inches the tank moves, and then move. "Into contact" would imply into BTB contact, but one thing is certain- the tank stops as soon as it makes "contact". ...whatever they mean by contact... Take notice of the small underlined part where tank shock is the only way enemy models can be move through. "No other changes of direction are allowed in a Tank Shock. If no enemy unit is reached,lust move the Tank straight ahead for the distance declared and nothing special takes place. A Tank Shock is an exception to the rule that enerny modeis cannot be moved through. Remember, though, that friendly rnodels still cannot be moved thtough, so the Tank's movement will be stopped if any friendly models are in the way. Also, a Tank Shock cannot be attempted against enemies that are locked in combat, as the risk of harming allies is too high." This paragraph states that friendly models cannot be moved through, and enemy ones can. It also states that unless no enemy is reached- nothing special takes place. This implies that the first paragraph (and the third one as we will see) explains that the tank does stop when conatcting emey models. "If an enemy unit other than another vehicle is reached, that enemy unit must take a Morale check and immediately Fall Back if it fails. If the test is passed, the unit simply lets the Tank move through, as if it was not there. Regardless of the result of the test, the Tank keeps moving straight on, possibly tank shocking more enemy units until it reaches its final position. If the Tank would move into contact with a friendly model, enerny vehicle, impassable terrain or a board edge, it immecliately stops moving" This explains how when the tank reaches an enemy model, a Ld tase has to be made. The tank still stops as soon as it contacts the enemy. If the models fail their morale ,they flee, if they pass the tank moves through. "If some enemy models in the enemy unit would end up underneath the vehicle when it reaches its final position (it makes no difference whether the unit is falling back or not)) these models must be moved out of the way by the shortest distance, leaving at least I " between thern and the vehicle ,whilst maintaining unit coherency and staying on the board. Any rnodels that cannot manage this are crushed and removed from play as casualties." Instead of reading this rule by looking at each section seperately - they are connected. If the tank would end up on top of models, they have to move away, mantain an inch distance - and naturally keep away from other models. Again, tank shock is the only way to move through other models. The tank has declared that it will move onto the MC, moves and stops in front of the MC. The MC would now make a Ld test and possibly do a death or glory( when the tank reaches it) . Then it has to move away from the tank, keep an inch distance, CANNOT move through it (since MC is not tank shocking , the tank is). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 So let's assume the MC rolls his leadership and passes. "If the test is passed, the unit simply lets the Tank move through" At this point, the MC only moves if he fails the test. He passes so he does not move and lets the tank pass. "Regardless of the result of the test, the Tank keeps moving straight on" So here the tank keeps moving over the top of the MC. "If some enemy models in the enemy unit would end up underneath the vehicle when it reaches its final position (it makes no difference whether the unit is falling back or not) these models must be moved out of the way by the shortest distance, leaving at least 1" between them and the vehicle ,whilst maintaining unit coherency and staying on the board. Any rnodels that cannot manage this are crushed and removed from play as casualties." Moved out of the way. They don't make a move, they are just moved out of the way and 1" away from the tank. One inch behind the tank is out of the way. If the tank completely moves over and past the MC it does not even have to move. If the tank moves to where the rear of the tank is the closest edge, the MC has to move behind the tank if possible. Once the MC (or anything else for that matter) passes their moral test they are not forced to move so they stay in their position. If he fails the test and can not fall back, sure; he's gone since he can not fall back through other models. If at the end of the move they would be under the tank they are moved out of the way just like you would move a tree out of the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Fibonacci has the right of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 It appears to me that a unit of one model (such as a lone monstrous creature) can never be killed by a tank shock. Why? Because there will always somewhere to move the model to that satisfies the requirement of "...by the shortest distance, leaving at least 1" between them and the vehicle, whilst maintaining unit coherency and staying on the board." The model has to move to the closest position that is on the board and 1" away from the tank. That's easy, no? It's only when dealing with units of multiple models that there can be a conflict between shortest distance, leaving at least 1" and maintaining unit coherency, which then results in some models being removed because their shortest distance places them out of coherency with other models whose shortest distance took them in another direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garath Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 What about not being able to move through a model? Also, a model can never enter within an inch of an enemy model unless it's charging. All of these put together, it seems like the rule is meant so that when the vehicle stops on top of the MC- the MC is moved back, until it's outside of one inch. It could be moved to the side too, if the tank would stop in such a way that the shortest distance would be to the side...but that depents on the tank- doesn't it? There is a thing to consider here - "shortest distance away" from the vehicle means just that. It doesn't say anything about the end position being blocked off by other models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 What about not being able to move through a model? Also, a model can never enter within an inch of an enemy model unless it's charging. You yourself pointed out that both of these are ignored. the MC is moved back, until it's outside of one inch. You are inserting rules that do not exist. It doesn't say "moved back", "moved away", or anything of the sort. It's "moved out of the way by the shortest distance", which is anywhere that's out of the way, as shown in my picture. It could be moved to the side too, if the tank would stop in such a way that the shortest distance would be to the side...but that depents on the tank- doesn't it? Exactly as I already showed in my picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garath Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 No. There's a difference. The tanke CAN move throught other models while TS. It can also move within one inch of a MC. A MC CANNOT move or be moved through a tank - it has to "be moved away" by the shortest distance possible. In other words - if the tank clips the MC from one side-the MC has to be moved "back" - as in away from the tank, as that is the shortest distance possible . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Not if there's an enemy there. Again, it's not "back" or "away", it's "out of the way". As my picture shows, this can be anywhere that there is room, because that's the shortest distance to safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raeven Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 No. There's a difference. The tanke CAN move throught other models while TS. It can also move within one inch of a MC. A MC CANNOT move or be moved through a tank - it has to "be moved away" by the shortest distance possible. In other words - if the tank clips the MC from one side-the MC has to be moved "back" - as in away from the tank, as that is the shortest distance possible . We've been through this not too long ago. I thought I linked to the post. The only way to guarantee a Tank Shock will kill anything, is to Tank Shock into the middle of a mob. The mob of models around the tank are what prevents a model from moving through them. The rules against moving through models are temporarily suspended ONLY for the Tank and any models underneath it. http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283745-tank-shocks-and-terrain/page-3?hl=%2Btank+%2Bshock&do=findComment&comment=3533035 Check the illustrations at the bottom of that post. It shows how models can move through a tank, the entire distance of the tank if necessary, to be "moved out of the way the shortest distance possible." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garath Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 Safety is not mentioned or guaranteed ... Ok, I give up. I'll never try that trick and am safe from the endless discussions that would surely arise out of it (as this one did). Anyway, thanks Seahawk for a good discussion(and as we've seen) we both love those, don't we. BTW, great looking Titan you have there. You mentioned "you call it finshed" - If you want, I can offer some very solid advice on washing that thing so it will not only look realistic, but also bring out the colors you already used. I did this for very solid cash back in the day. I don't want to be pushy or anything - the model looks very good as it is . G_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 No. There's a difference. The tanke CAN move throught other models while TS. It can also move within one inch of a MC. A MC CANNOT move or be moved through a tank - it has to "be moved away" by the shortest distance possible. In other words - if the tank clips the MC from one side-the MC has to be moved "back" - as in away from the tank, as that is the shortest distance possible . It can "move through the tank" if that tank is performing a Tank Shock in exactly the same manner that the tank can move through the target. As in, it doesn't. The unit simply lets the Tank move through, as if it was not there. Let's be clear about that. Once it passes it's moral test, that unit is not there. Neither one is moving within 1" of the other. If the tank ends up on a model that passed it's moral test, you move the model out of the way. You are just rearranging things so they all sit on the table. It can be done, but you would have to start with the tank very close to the target (less than 2" plus the width of the tareget's base) and not only sorround the MC but also be behind and on both sides of the tank. That way there is no where that is 1" away fom the tank and also 1" away from all other enemy models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garath Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 No. There's a difference. The tanke CAN move throught other models while TS. It can also move within one inch of a MC. A MC CANNOT move or be moved through a tank - it has to "be moved away" by the shortest distance possible. In other words - if the tank clips the MC from one side-the MC has to be moved "back" - as in away from the tank, as that is the shortest distance possible . It can "move through the tank" if that tank is performing a Tank Shock in exactly the same manner that the tank can move through the target. As in, it doesn't. The unit simply lets the Tank move through, as if it was not there. Let's be clear about that. Once it passes it's moral test, that unit is not there. Neither one is moving within 1" of the other. If the tank ends up on a model that passed it's moral test, you move the model out of the way. You are just rearranging things so they all sit on the table. I could argue it further -but I came to a conclusion earlier so what's the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Ya. We all have pertty much laid out our arguments. In the end -- just like everything else 40K rules related -- discuss with your play group before hand and just have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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