3DJutsu Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 The banner states "Any friendly Ravenwing unit within X" of this banner automatically passes its Initiative test when attempting to Hit & Run". So when my Black Knights auto-pass their H&R test, would the Allied WS Chapter Master attached to them come with them? What about an attached Dark Angel techmarine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Only Sammael, RWAS, RWCS, RWBK are RAVENWING so only them benefit from the banner... Any allied SM on bike, DA librarian, chaplain, interrogator-chaplain and techmarine on bike ARE NOT ravenwing so they dont benefit from the RW banner... Welcome to DA codex... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3DJutsu Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 So they just get left behind in the melee due to forced seperation. Hrm... I wonder if I can exploit this tactically... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I don't know if you can left behind someone using the banner of RW or the squad your NON-RW IC is attached must remain stucked in HtH with him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValourousHeart Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 You both should go back and read the hit and run rules (BRB 38). The very first sentence is... "a unit that contains at least one model..." Sammie attached to an assault squad, all models get H&R. RWBK with attached WS bike captain, all models gets H&R. RWAS with attached DA techmarine, all models gets H&R. Now if the units were not attached prior to entering CC then yes the group with H&R would leave CC and the group without H&R would stay. As to the banner it affects the unit, which includes all attached models. So 2 and 3 are RW units with attached IC, and therefore would be affected. 1 is less clear cut to me, but I would allow it if my opponent asked for it and wouldn't argue if they said I couldn't. (unless it was the same game). ** On a side note, would Sammie give skilled rider to the assault squad? Meaning they could jump in and out of terrain with impunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Yes, characters cannot split from units for any reason other than the normal one (i.e. you choose to do so in the movement phase). Unlike 5E, 6E was written to be inclusive regarding special rules; particularly in regard to characters, meaning that characters do not quash rules, and rules the characters themselves have are shared with a unit they join. In this case, you have a Ravenwing unit joined by two characters, neither of which are Ravenwing. Is the unit no longer a Ravenwing unit then? Nope, it still is. The two characters simply are a part of the Ravenwing unit now (even though they are not Ravenwing), and so can take advantage of the banner along with the rest of the Ravenwing unit. If either of the characters leave the Ravenwing unit they will of course no longer gain any benefit of the banner, they not being considered to be a Ravenwing unit when on their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3DJutsu Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share Posted January 3, 2014 Right right, they an only join or leave in the movement phase. So I guess they would H&R when the Ravenwing auto-passes their test. Nice, cheers mates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 It makes more sense this way... I had the doubt cause in DA wargear section it states that DA wearing the TDA take advantage of DW special rules while riding a bike they dont follow the RW rules unless attached to a RW squadron... Thanks for the explanation... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garath Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I might be stating the obvios here, but: Hit and run "A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule that is locked in combat can choose to leave close combat at the end of any Assault phase" Since an ICs join the unit- they all Hit and run together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 The problem Garath is not the fact that can he hit and run or not. He can . The problem is the fact that the banner allow to pass automatically the I test for the RW models and only for them... So the question is : if there's a WS captain inside the squad, does he profit from the auto pass bonus or does he nullify the banner effect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Exactly. You need to consider what constitues a 'Ravenwing unit' when there's non Ravenwing models attached. By RAW I'd still say yes it still is a Ravenwing unit - albeit one that contains non-RW models. If the banner says 'RW units' (don't have Codex with me to check) and doesn't specifically mention individual models, I'd say you were good to go. Cheers I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 The best solution could be to avoid allies... But I must confess I'm more and more epidermic with that at the moment :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I'm with Isiah, the unit is still an RW unit, he just happens to be along. I think a similar situation would be if two units in assault have their two ICs in a challenge, the unit that loses combat (and assuming subsequently fails their LD test) would fall back, that includes the losing IC in the challenge as well, assuming he wasnt killed. He doesn't get stuck there as he's part of the unit. The fearless USR applies in similar fashion. Necron Wraiths for instance have fearless but might be running with a Destroyer Lord (not fearless), if they lose combat they still autopass their LD check, the Destroyer Lord doesn't take a test or fail on his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Well the difference in your example is that by RAW all models in a unit have Fearless if one model present has it. The RW banner issue is slightly different. But we agree on the overall result :yes: Cheers I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 The problem Garath is not the fact that can he hit and run or not. He can . The problem is the fact that the banner allow to pass automatically the I test for the RW models and only for them... So the question is : if there's a WS captain inside the squad, does he profit from the auto pass bonus or does he nullify the banner effect? You are reading "Ravenwing models" when what it says is "Ravenwing units". One would assume that the writers very specifically wrote it as "units" because they know that various RW units can be joined by a non-RW characters, and they would not want a situation where a unit ends up having to split up in such a way that is not allowed for in the game rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 There is no doubt; page 39 of the BGB reads...While an Independent Character is part of a unit, he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes... Topic closed please Mods :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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