The best legion (please don't hurt me...) *Hides*

[Brother Captain Lucian]

The best legions are the ones I play. Duh? ..

[Kol Saresk]

Black Legion because it is only legion that still exists today.

An army of mercenaries is not an army. The Black Legion is such only in name.

There is also the fact that they are essentially a XVI Legion warband. The first of the Black Legion were the Sons of Horus that were with Abaddon, not all of the Legion.

[Brother Keyaetus]

Dark Angels I think would of taken the cake at the start...since they were first made, and were only improved with the Lion.

 

Then the Luna Wolves/Sons of horus blitzed their way through the crusade stealing all the laurels (as did the 1st ofc)

 

The Iron Hands had their fair share of big wins it seems too, and with the added fact of Ferrus' seniority when battling alongside other legions.

 

And ofcourse White scars, because they are 1000% pure awesome. 

 

(and every other legion that has a great book in the heresy series/fw books that changes my flimsy mind in a heartbeat)

[Grimdarkness]

The Dark Angel's there victory tally speaks for itself nothing was claimed that was not earned such as the luna wolfs/sons of horus.

They fought as the emps body guard at the start.

They lion put the great wolf in his place.

[Vesper]

 

1.Imperial fists. The most loyal of all legions, loyalty was never questioned.

Except by Guilliman, right ?

 

 

An army of mercenaries is not an army. The Black Legion is such only in name.

I think it's a bit more complicated.

 

On topic, I'd say Luna Wolves / Sons of Horus. Because that's what the background tells us.

[A D-B]

Black Legion because it is only legion that still exists today.

>>>An army of mercenaries is not an army. The Black Legion is such only in name.

There is also the fact that they are essentially a XVI Legion warband. The first of the Black Legion were the Sons of Horus that were with Abaddon, not all of the Legion.

10,000 years is a long time ago, though. Now they're a Legion. They're the Legion. Saying they're essentially a Sons of Horus warband is like saying essentially the Dark Angels are a lab-grown gang of dudes in Crusade armour. I mean, sure, the very first ones were. That's how they started. That's not what they are now. That's not even what they were a few years after their inception.

EDIT: I'm not trying to be a pedant, here. The size and scale of the Black Legion is part of what makes them such a big deal, though. They're Chaos Marines redefined.

[Wade Garrett]

My favorite Legions are the Word Bearers (We will not live a lie!) with the Night Lords (Sins must be punished. Our own the harshest of all) and the World Eaters (Rage, RAGE against the dying of the light!) coming in close seconds.

 

And on the loyalist side of things, the Ultramarines. They get bonus points for their Primarch sacrificing himself to send Daemon Fulgrim back to hell instead of "See you, kiddos. Dad's going off to do Dad stuff, watch the house while I'm gone."

 

Trying to pick a best?

 

During the Great Crusade? The First Heretic lists the Luna Wolves, Dark Angels, Ultramarines, and Word Bearers as the glory Legions.

 

And going by older stuff, Horus and Guilliman did the most during the Crusade, with the Lion and Russ doing the second most.

(Exact amount of accomplishment varies IA to IA and Codex to Codex).

[Stormborn]

hard to say who is the best legion at the moment as we haven't seen every legion in action equally in the BL series and FW have 4 more books to write yet.  Even then it is going to be determined by who writes them for BL.  If ADB writes a legion they will come out better than if Graham McNeil or Nick Kyme.  As in my opinion ADB seems have the best grasp on what makes a Space Marine tick in the way that Dan Abnett writes the best standard human novels for BL.

 

The HH has really shifter my personal perception of some of the legions before HH.  I used to be solid son of Dorn and always thought of the Ultramarines as a cross between the Smurfs and the Boy Scouts whose primarch was a bit of a wet blanket.  Now I think dorn is a bit of a dick, his sons are rather dull whilst the Roboute is a bad ass and his legion may be Smurfs but their damn cool bad ass Smurfs (apart form their 40K special Characters who I still can't stand).

 

Based on my personal preference I feel that the Space Wolves are the best legion based on their culture, colour scheme and fluff.  I can't deny that mainly it is the fact that they have been my Chapeter of choice for nearly 30 years, despite GW best efforts to make them crap in 40k with stuff like thunder wolves, lukas and canis.  

[Vesper]

10,000 years is a long time ago, though. Now they're a Legion. They're the

Legion. Saying they're essentially a Sons of Horus warband is like

saying essentially the Dark Angels are a lab-grown gang of dudes in

Crusade armour. I mean, sure, the very first ones were. That's how they

started. That's not what they are now. That's not even what they were a

few years after their inception.

EDIT: I'm not

trying to be a pedant, here. The size and scale of the Black Legion is

part of what makes them such a big deal, though. They're Chaos Marines

redefined.

Alright, is there a date for the Talon of Horus yet ? Because I feel like I've waited way too long .

As I said to 1000heathens (hey pal !), I think it's much more complicated when it comes to the Black Legion. We all know that, virtually, no warband is like another. Sure, there are Black Legion lords that aren't much more than mercenary kings, that see their time in the Black Legion like an investment for future days where they'll become something else. But for those, there's the fear, the terror of the Despoiler's wrath. A price to pay to get its share of the spoils.

For many Black Legionnaires, though, I'd say there could be gratitude to the Despoiler who gave them a purpose, and saved them from the decay of the legions of old, the perils of the Eye, stuff like that. Hell, he probably even gave them the means to survive and to fight the Long War.

Because there are also some who only live to make the Imperium bleed, and to get to Terra, because that's the defining goal of their entire existence. And to those, the Black Legion is the only real option. Some have faced it in battle when they were loyal, some have only heard of it, but all of them know it's the thing.

There are also loads of Chaos marines that only respect power and strenght. Those stick in the Despoiler's legion because the Black Legion is the ultimate fighting force of the Galaxy, a nigh unstoppable force once united. A glorious reputation is closely linked to their colours, and it is something some Chaos marines value. Those might stick with Abaddon only because he's successful, but they stick with him.

There are also the true followers of Chaos, that see Abaddon as the chosen of the four gods. To some, Abaddon might even be some kind of deity, the avatar of Chaos. To those, joining the Black Legion is an act of pure faith. They are crusaders of Chaos.

Many warbands end up in one or two of those archetypes (there are many, many more), some shift between those, evolving with their own history. An opportunistic lord might've joined the Black Legion, looking to increase his power, but after the Warmaster saved his ass, or rewarded him enough, he has become one of the most loyal Black Legionnaire around, taking pride in wearing the Black.

It's the friggin Black Legion. You get the worst and the best of what's in the Eye. It is actually so large (larger than the legions of the Crusade) that it's quite hard to sum up what's the deal with those guys.

I guess Abaddon enforces an esprit de corps or something, to ensure some kind of unity in hatred for the Imperium, but Chaos Lords are still Chaos Lords and they remain free to do pretty much what they want. Abaddon only made sure there would be consequences to disloyalty.

EDIT : the Black Legion is actually so badass that they might highjack this thread ! Glory to the Warmaster !

[Kais Klip]

Best Legion has to be the Warmaster's 16th, if only because the Big E said they were, and things don't tend to go so well with those that disagrEe with the Big E. If you look at what the legions were made or, and the exact parameters the Emperor wished of them, you've got to give it to the XVI for fulfilling those parameters better than any other legion, executioners and empire builders included.

 

And if we count that little heresy thing as a negative? Well then you've got to give the title to the old boys, the old schoolers, the guys who were purging and burning when the rest were in infancy or not even named yet, and when the heresy rolled around they were too cool to even get involved in that mainstream shtick. The only other who even our bountiful empire boy looked up to, and the ones who shattered another legion all by their merry selves. Lets hear it for the First Legion WOOOO \o/ \o/ \o/

[AlabasterKnight]

The best legions are your own really.

I read this thread and try to make a choice, but alas, I feel the best ones are the ones they haven't written of at all :)

 

(I know, biased).

I throw my hat to the Fists though. Loyalty, bravery, and a slightly broader outlook than Ultramarines. I feel like the Codex mentality of Guilliman ruins the creativity that a Space MArine might need to do their job without remorse if in the absence of a 'written' solution; and although I've no proof, that I believe would be the best argument Dorn should have stuck with post heresy.

[Wade Garrett]

Rogal Dorn arguing for strategic and tactical flexibility just seems wrong.

 

Like Angron praising stealth squads. Or Corax saying his Legion needs more Land Raider Spartans.

[Marshal Rohr]

Because clearly Horus and Guilliman thought Dorn wasn't very capable at generalship and never considered his opinion.

[depthcharge12]

My favorite Legions are the Word Bearers (We will not live a lie!) with the Night Lords (Sins must be punished. Our own the harshest of all) and the World Eaters (Rage, RAGE against the dying of the light!) coming in close seconds.

And on the loyalist side of things, the Ultramarines. They get bonus points for their Primarch sacrificing himself to send Daemon Fulgrim back to hell instead of "See you, kiddos. Dad's going off to do Dad stuff, watch the house while I'm gone."

.

 

Dad stuff???

 

 

You mean go to the primarch strip club?

[Legatus]

 

Because clearly Horus and Guilliman thought Dorn wasn't very capable at generalship and never considered his opinion.

 

Dorn has allways been described as very analytical and precise planner. He has also been described as less flexible in his approaches, with uniform, uninspired force compositions and rarely adjusting a strategy mid-execuion. Though the Horus Heresy books may not have described it quite the same.

[Demus Ragnok]

The best legions are your own really.

I read this thread and try to make a choice, but alas, I feel the best ones are the ones they haven't written of at all

(I know, biased).

I throw my hat to the Fists though. Loyalty, bravery, and a slightly broader outlook than Ultramarines. I feel like the Codex mentality of Guilliman ruins the creativity that a Space MArine might need to do their job without remorse if in the absence of a 'written' solution; and although I've no proof, that I believe would be the best argument Dorn should have stuck with post heresy.

Fists are famous for siege/trench/fortress fighting. And that's their claim to fame.

Despite the idea of the codex being "restrictive" it is supposed to cover "all" tactical situations. So I don't see the Fists and their famous "stubbornness" having a "broader" outlook.

[AlabasterKnight]

That broader outlook I describe  is the freedom to act outside the Codex without regard to scrutiny. That's all. I don't look at Dorn himself as imaginative, rather cognizant that his opposition to and begrudging acceptance of the Codex may have been the last bastion of each Legion serving to their strengths rather than being forced to accept the views of Guilliman.

[Kais Klip]

 

The best legions are your own really.

I read this thread and try to make a choice, but alas, I feel the best ones are the ones they haven't written of at all :)

 

(I know, biased).

I throw my hat to the Fists though. Loyalty, bravery, and a slightly broader outlook than Ultramarines. I feel like the Codex mentality of Guilliman ruins the creativity that a Space MArine might need to do their job without remorse if in the absence of a 'written' solution; and although I've no proof, that I believe would be the best argument Dorn should have stuck with post heresy.

Fists are famous for siege/trench/fortress fighting. And that's their claim to fame.

 

Despite the idea of the codex being "restrictive" it is supposed to cover "all" tactical situations. So I don't see the Fists and their famous "stubbornness" having a "broader" outlook.

Post-heresy Imperium, perhaps. But while they shared the space with the Iron Warriors, the fists rather had a pre-inclination in their successes towards urban fields.

 

It was also rather the introspection and insight of the Fists that is sometimes remarked on, although were it be due to above-average consideration for an Astartes or simply instances that went against the dour Fist stereotype, hard to tell. Sigi and the Dorn were quite insightful though, but that should be a given considering their respective positions.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Different Legions are better at different things, which is why they vary so hugely in organisation and doctrine.

Sure, some Legions might be huge & therefore more powerful, but no situation would really allow them to bring all that force to bear at once.

Different situations, different strengths, different results.

 

So there is no way you can categorically say one Legion is 'better' than another. Everything is subjective.

 

Sure, everyone has their favourite Legion based on its own character, but its like the Primarchs - everytime they fight, the winner is really dictated by the situation, not which one is the 'best'.

[Wade Garrett]

IIRC, Corax and the Khan backed Guilliman on the Codex issue.

 

I can't see either of those two forcefully arguing for the strategic straitjacket the Codex's detractors claim it is.

[Kais Klip]

IIRC, Corax and the Khan backed Guilliman on the Codex issue.

I can't see either of those two forcefully arguing for the strategic straitjacket the Codex's detractors claim it is.

Would it be more right to consider their agreement to be more in line with the splitting of the Legions rather than the Codex's strategic and tactical... suggestions?

[Demus Ragnok]

That broader outlook I describe  is the freedom to act outside the Codex without regard to scrutiny. That's all. I don't look at Dorn himself as imaginative, rather cognizant that his opposition to and begrudging acceptance of the Codex may have been the last bastion of each Legion serving to their strengths rather than being forced to accept the views of Guilliman.

 

Post Legion Chapters very much have individuality. The current edition of C:SM illustrates this, so I don't see your point.

 

Also see Wades comment above.

[Legatus]

 

So there is no way you can categorically say one Legion is 'better' than another. Everything is subjective.

 

At the end of the day, it's the bottom line that counts.

[Demus Ragnok]

Basically, what is the "best legion" in your opinion. Not just ERMAGHERD I CAN HAZ ANGRONS EAT WORLD LOLZ but tell us why ANGRONS eats worlds (color schemes, story, etc.)

 

 

 

 

So there is no way you can categorically say one Legion is 'better' than another. Everything is subjective.

 

At the end of the day, it's the bottom line that counts.

 

Opinion=subjective

[BlueRingedCephalopodofKaos]

Of the loyalists, let's go by historical analogue: The invasions of Rome were precipitated by the mass displacement of various Germanic tribes, as those furthest east flew in terror from the advancing Huns.*

We can therefore assume that if Jaghatai Khan ever chose to move against Russ, the Space Wolves would piss-themselves in response before running off to burn Ultramar and pillage Macragge.

So, the answer is quite obvious.

*source: Dan Carlin's "Hardcore History," aka the best podcast in the world regardless of its accuracy

** And of the traitors? Death Guard, in equal obviousness.