The best legion (please don't hurt me...) *Hides*

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Angron goes through at least three different weapons that we know of (Widowmaker, the one Skraal had, Gorefather/Gorechild).

 

So if Ferrus ever made such a blade for Angron, the World Eater used it until it broke and had to find a replacement.

 

Eh dunno, the only record we have of one of Ferrus's creations breaking is when he uses his crazy techno-hands to break Fireblade - and this unleashes enough force to blow Fulgrim across the room, knock Ferrus out in full warplate and basically blow up his personal quarters.

 

Gives me a feeling that stuff he makes can only be unmade by him - or other necrodermis / dark age of technology magic stuff

 

Then again, this whole thing is pure conjecture - the only stuff we know Ferrus made is Fireblade, Illuminarium & Vulcan's gun. Its likely the reason he gives his brothers weapons is becase he's the / one of the smith Primarch(s) - any stuff he makes would be  WAYYYY to overpowered to give to anyone else

 

Tbh, if Angron did get given a weapon by the Gorgon ( and we have no idea of the relationship between the 2) he'd be more likely to discard it because it wasn't his style rather than it isn't strong enough - in Fulgrim, Fireblade & Forgebreaker are said to have the power to level mountains

[Kol Saresk]

Idk, I could see Angron being the one Primarch who could take an unbreakable weapon, and break it through lack of maintenance and overuse.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

"Goddamn it Angron, I told you not to throw it into stars! And look, your armour's all broken - let me just punch it back together with my deus ex machina hands. By the way, you've got a bit of dribble on your chi-no Angron, thats your eye."

[Wade Garrett]

Are we really going to use Fulgrim and Ferrus waxing hyperbolic about each other's mighty weapons (HEEEYYYOOO!) as quantifiable evidence of their power?

 

Because Fireblade and Forgebreaker are swung a lot in Fulgrim and Angel Exterminatus,

and every time there is a distinct

lack of leveled mountains.

[Demus Ragnok]

Are we really going to use Fulgrim and Ferrus waxing hyperbolic about each other's mighty weapons (HEEEYYYOOO!) as quantifiable evidence of their power?

 

Because Fireblade and Forgebreaker are swung a lot in Fulgrim and Angel Exterminatus,

and every time there is a distinct

lack of leveled mountains.

Is that really necessary Wade.

[Conn Eremon]

Just to be clear, Forgebreaker is made by Fulgrim. Fireblade is made Ferrus, who thinks Fulgrim's Forgebreaker is more awesome. Fulgrim liked Fireblade, so they traded and became bros 4 life(ish).

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

 

Are we really going to use Fulgrim and Ferrus waxing hyperbolic about each other's mighty weapons (HEEEYYYOOO!) as quantifiable evidence of their power?

 

Because Fireblade and Forgebreaker are swung a lot in Fulgrim and Angel Exterminatus,

and every time there is a distinct

lack of leveled mountains.

 

C'mon Wade, considering your original point was that Ferrus's weapons probably weren't that impressive / durable because Angron hypothetically broke a weapon that didn't exist based on the fact he used more than one weapon in his life,

perhaps saying there aren't any direct examples of these weapons' suggested power & therefore what was said about them in Fulgrim is wrong is a bit moot 

[Memento Of Prospero]

You know what they say: The more haters you have, the lonelier it gets at the top ;)

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

Are we really going to use Fulgrim and Ferrus waxing hyperbolic about each other's mighty weapons (HEEEYYYOOO!) as quantifiable evidence of their power?

 

Because Fireblade and Forgebreaker are swung a lot in Fulgrim and Angel Exterminatus,

and every time there is a distinct

lack of leveled mountains.

 

C'mon Wade, considering your original point was that Ferrus's weapons probably weren't that impressive / durable because Angron hypothetically broke a weapon that didn't exist based on the fact he used more than one weapon in his life,

perhaps saying there aren't any direct examples of these weapons' suggested power & therefore what was said about them in Fulgrim is wrong is a bit moot

 

 

Umm, no offense, but we have no proof that these weapons were unbreakable. True, we only have an example that whenever Fireblade was destroyed, it was destroyed by Ferrus. However, that gives rise to speculation, it does not cement fact. So to say that the weapon obviously never existed just because Angron had multiple weapons is a somewhat..... "holey" statement when it could also be just as easily theorized that Angron simply never accepted such a weapon primarily because he was superstitious and having a weapon forged from metal being massaged into shape simply gave him a bad juju vibe.

[Memento Of Prospero]

 

 

Are we really going to use Fulgrim and Ferrus waxing hyperbolic about each other's mighty weapons (HEEEYYYOOO!) as quantifiable evidence of their power?

 

Because Fireblade and Forgebreaker are swung a lot in Fulgrim and Angel Exterminatus,

and every time there is a distinct

lack of leveled mountains.

 

C'mon Wade, considering your original point was that Ferrus's weapons probably weren't that impressive / durable because Angron hypothetically broke a weapon that didn't exist based on the fact he used more than one weapon in his life,

perhaps saying there aren't any direct examples of these weapons' suggested power & therefore what was said about them in Fulgrim is wrong is a bit moot

 

Umm, no offense, but we have no proof that these weapons were unbreakable. True, we only have an example that whenever Fireblade was destroyed, it was destroyed by Ferrus. However, that gives rise to speculation, it does not cement fact. So to say that the weapon obviously never existed just because Angron had multiple weapons is a somewhat..... "holey" statement when it could also be just as easily theorized that Angron simply never accepted such a weapon primarily because he was superstitious and having a weapon forged from metal being massaged into shape simply gave him a bad juju vibe.

 

Or, maybe, he never deserved to be offered one? Ferrus Manus grudgingly offered one to the Aurelian for his assistance. It's not like Ferrus Manus is the type of guy that harasses everyone until they cave in and accept his offerings.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Are we really going to use Fulgrim and Ferrus waxing hyperbolic about each other's mighty weapons (HEEEYYYOOO!) as quantifiable evidence of their power?

Because Fireblade and Forgebreaker are swung a lot in Fulgrim and Angel Exterminatus,

and every time there is a distinct

lack of leveled mountains.

C'mon Wade, considering your original point was that Ferrus's weapons probably weren't that impressive / durable because Angron hypothetically broke a weapon that didn't exist based on the fact he used more than one weapon in his life,

perhaps saying there aren't any direct examples of these weapons' suggested power & therefore what was said about them in Fulgrim is wrong is a bit moot

Umm, no offense, but we have no proof that these weapons were unbreakable. True, we only have an example that whenever Fireblade was destroyed, it was destroyed by Ferrus. However, that gives rise to speculation, it does not cement fact. So to say that the weapon obviously never existed just because Angron had multiple weapons is a somewhat..... "holey" statement when it could also be just as easily theorized that Angron simply never accepted such a weapon primarily because he was superstitious and having a weapon forged from metal being massaged into shape simply gave him a bad juju vibe.

Oh I'm just saying they'd be super tricky to break considering the fluff about the existing ones. What I was saying about multiple weapons was that Wade's basis for the idea of Angron having broken a weapon Ferrus gave him was that because we haven't heard about it (in contrast to the other weapons we have), Angron must have broken it.

Then again, seeing as we only know about Illuminaruim, Fireblade & Vulcan's bolter, this whole discussion is pure conjecture. Because I tried to make a joke about Primarchs hitting each other with sticks

When it comes down to it, Ferrus was a colossal asshat in terms of personality - sure, he was a really cool asshat (& my fave Primarch), but he wasn't particularly pleasant to Lorgar even when giving him a present. Considering how badly both Ferrus & Angron react to criticism, its tricky to imagine a situation where the Gorgon would be pally enough to actually make Angron a weapon.

[Aleax]

 

 

This is even more damaging as you know that my Dark Angels are from the 1st edition, where there were no fallen angels whatsoever.

 

Back then it was also said that the Dark Angels for unknown reasons lacked any historical records from the times of the Great Crusade or the Horus Heresy. So they could not really make any claims to notable loyalty during those periods.

 

Also, some of your reasons for why the Ultramarines are the greatest Legion seem to refer to the contemporary Ultramarines Chapter, not the the original Legion. Well, they were blue. But there were three Legions with a shade of blue (four if you count the Night Lords, five if you count the partial blue of the World Eaters). Before the Heresy, the Emperor's Children were said to have the purest gene-seed. Though later it would be suspected that their suscpetibility to Chaos were partially genetic.

Well you are the connoisseur here, you seem to know everything about 40K, and I admit that I am not in the hobby to the point I read all issues of W40K since the start. :) I have however myself my little knowledge of 40k though, like everybody.;)

 

For Dark Angels being traitors pre 2nd (althought after 1st ed the traitors DA are 'only' Luthor and a few calibanites ;)), this is just plain wrong to me. You do know everything about 40K, and Dark Angels. In the Deathwing story, or in a story in the Space Hulk books IIRC a Dark Angel terminator said something like "how a marine can turned himself from the light of the Emperor??" In a candid manner.

 

He was a Deathwing terminator, and asked himself (or anyone that would hear him) something that doesn't concerned Dark Angels at all (IIRC he talked about chaos marines). Because if not, he would just have shut up. So back then, the Deathwing were not chasing fallen, because there ain't fallen, even if I agree there were not a ton of background. So the few that can be known back then, is in the stories, the one I used here.

 

For Ultramarines, I believe that Ultramarines deserve the fluff they have now. Sure it was not always this way apparently like you said, but I believe that the game has grown in the sense that it has given finally to the Ultramarines a picture of what they have always been since the start.

 

Also, no problem for me of liking a legion, and making it His Legion of Heart! You look like you don't want to be considered a fan of Ultramarines, considering that their fluff is great and you answer by "but there are other blue chapter colors" or "their fluff was not that way at start" or "EC geneseed was the purest".

 

Why not simply accept to be or be considered a dark follower of the Ultramarines (lol)? They are great, and you would be their Librarian Codicier (or whatever you want^^). Why not be proud about this?? There's nothing wrong about this in my opinion.

 

Cheers.

[depthcharge12]

Who knows, maybe Ferrus would have given Angron a weapon after giving that praise to the armor regiments (though it isn't known if Angron was even involved with that.

 

It would've been cool to have Ferrus give him a gigantic meteor hammer or flesh barb hook thingy (not really Ferrus' style tbh) only to have Angron break upside Leman's skull on the night of the wolf ;)

 

 

However, what was the whole deal with the mechanicum making Angron a blade at the end of Betrayer anyway?

[Legatus]

Aleax: I figured my favourite would be well known, so I did not feel the need to spell it out. So I merely explained my reasoning for determining the "best Legion" on page one of this thread: Accomplishments in pursuing the Great Crusade. I think every fan can name the five Legions that accomplished the most (the Dark Angels are among these, btw). There are two Legions that are given the top spot in the background, depending on the exact source.

I actually don't know all of the Warhammer 40K sources ever released. In particular in 1st Edition material I have some gaps, though I know a lot of the older sources. Concerning the Dark Angels I found an old White Dwarf article about Jetbikes (or "Jet-Cycles"), which included a short description of the Ravenwing and the Dark Angels. According to this description, the Dark Angels were one of the original Chapters, but all of their early historical records were erased after the Horus Heresy, for unknown reasons.

I don't know if this is already setting up their treason background, but there was definitely something fishy being hinted at.

[Aleax]

@Legatus. Ok I found the quote I was looking for :

"How could a true Marine forsworn? It seemed unlikely that he would suddenly turn his back on the pattern of a lifetime and pact with the Darkness. What had Chaos to offer him?" said a Deathwing terminator

in the Deathwing Story back in the 1989 era, unfortunately I have not the page number, but it is above the Ezekiel shoulder pad picture here :

http://fr.games-workshop.com/doc/27638507/The-Deathwing-Story-From-Space-Hulk-Expansion

So just to say there weren't fallen, Deathwing terminators didn't chase them, because there were none. Now as to why all records were expunged from the library, I dunno. So DA had traitors, and the Deathwing didn't know about this back then?

Frankly as a Dark Angel and not as someone that simply tries to evaluate them and build some stuff for them while not knowing exactly what they are (some of the recent background for example), I am going to keep thinking my way, Dark Angels are foremost Loyalists.

That wouldn't be far off with the recent background, stuff is oriented on "The Unforgiven" and "eternal crusade for redemption" blabla, on which I simply see one traitor, Luther, and those he persuaded to join him, a bunch of Calibanites.

That being said, let's come back to the original topic aka which Legion is the best .

[Frosco Toppings]

Didn't Ferrus make the first Pip-Boy 3000?

[Memento Of Prospero]

Didn't Ferrus make the first Pip-Boy 3000?

Many wonders fill his personal vault!

[Castellan Michael]

Vlka Fenryka. Enough said.

[TheForgottenAngel]

So many honor duels so little time.....sigh

[daveNYC]

Ultramarines.  Not because they're super awesome, but because every other legion has a trait or fault that makes you want to facepalm and then drive all their battlebarges into the sun.

 

BA?  Vampires.  IH?  Too damn stupid to remove their bionics when faced with a foe that can turn their bionics against them.  1K Sons?  Serious delusions about the warp and their ability to control it.  SW?  A 40k mentality (in the worst sense of the word) that sets their allignment to Lawful-Stupid.  AL?  Sneaky, and willing to set their own goals, and guess whose goals get priority.  IW?  Always willing to fight the enemy, with enemy defined as everyone in the legion other than Perturabo.  WE?  Slightly confused at the concept of collateral damage.  Etc.

 

Long story short, the Ultras aren't going to be the absolute best choice for any specific situation, some other legion would probably do the trick better, but they're the only legion that won't up and get the transhuman stupids at any given point.

[Kol Saresk]

Ultramarines: Stop shooting me! Why are you shooting! Please brother! We mean you no-" BLAM!

[Memento Of Prospero]

Ultramarines: Stop shooting me! Why are you shooting! Please brother! We mean you no-" BLAM!

 

You mean Ultramarines: The warhammer soulless gingers. Personalities are left at the door when joining the legion!

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

Ultramarines: Stop shooting me! Why are you shooting! Please brother! We mean you no-" BLAM!

 

You mean Ultramarines: The warhammer soulless gingers. Personalities are left at the door when joining the legion!

 

 

Unless you're Uriel Ventris.

[Memento Of Prospero]

 

 

Ultramarines: Stop shooting me! Why are you shooting! Please brother! We mean you no-" BLAM!

 

You mean Ultramarines: The warhammer soulless gingers. Personalities are left at the door when joining the legion!

 

Unless you're Uriel Ventris.

 

The exception that confirms the rule.

[Stormborn]

Never liked Ventris, like all the 40K Ultramarine characters he is a bit bland.