Kol Saresk Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Objection! You can't prove that! You can't disprove it either. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285267-the-best-legion-please-dont-hurt-me-hides/page/7/#findComment-3561970 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormborn Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Having given this at least 10 minutes thought last night and ignoring my personal preference and the HH. I can now confirm that the Alpha Legion are the best legion. I'm basing this on the the way products evolve over time. Stay with me on this. The original Xbox 360 & PS3 were pretty good when they worked but they had some hideous flaws which meant I had them replaced 14 times the later models have had none of the flaws (when did you last hear about the red ring of death) were quieter and kicked out a lot less heat. So applying this to the legions we can see that the Dark Angels would be the starting point and every legion after this would be that bit better up to the Alpha Legion. However, after erebus & co. (BOO!) stuck their oar in and pimped Horus to Chaos things get a bit different. I'm going to discount all the traitor legions (you lost deal with it) and there are no legions in 40K so I can discard the Black Legion, Red Corsairs, Steel Legion & Legion of the Damned. This leaves the Loyalist the Salamanders, Raven Guard, and Iron Hands were pushed to the verges of extinction so sorry guys you are out too. The Space Wolves, Ultramarines and Dark Angels all went shopping or something so they don't make the cut either. Which leaves me with White Scars, Blood Angels and Imeprial Fists. I'm dropping the Fists from the list because of their getting trapped by the Iron Warriors and having to have the Ultramarines come and save them. So Blood Angels or White Scars? The Blood Angels though awesome are tragically flawed and psychologically scarred by the death of Sanginus which leaves the White Scars standing tall as the best post HH legion (until Roboute disolves the legions). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285267-the-best-legion-please-dont-hurt-me-hides/page/7/#findComment-3561986 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrannicide Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 But Legions are not gaming consoles... The XX isn't the best just because they're the new shiny toy or PS4 of the bunch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285267-the-best-legion-please-dont-hurt-me-hides/page/7/#findComment-3561997 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 The Space Wolves, Ultramarines and Dark Angels all went shopping or something so they don't make the cut either. (...) (...) which leaves the White Scars standing tall as the best post HH legion Because we all know the Ultramarines didn't really do much "post heresy"... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285267-the-best-legion-please-dont-hurt-me-hides/page/7/#findComment-3561999 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I'm going to end this debate right here. The best Legion was the II Legion. Go ahead. Prove me wrong. They're dead. If you can't give me a source on that then I can't believe that it's true. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285267-the-best-legion-please-dont-hurt-me-hides/page/7/#findComment-3562001 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormborn Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 The Ultramarines didn't make the final battle and if you're not in the main event you're just part of the job squad. Plus there are no legions post heresy and the question is best legion not best chapter . If it was best chappter then it would be impossible to chose as there 1,000 or more many of which don't officialy exist. As to the Alpha Legion they were the last which gives the big E the longest time to hone them remove the flaws that he can spot (not many if the HH is anything to go on). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285267-the-best-legion-please-dont-hurt-me-hides/page/7/#findComment-3562005 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I'm going to end this debate right here. The best Legion was the II Legion. Go ahead. Prove me wrong. They're dead. If you can't give me a source on that then I can't believe that it's true. Can you give me a source they're alive? I got two witnesses saying they helped kill them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285267-the-best-legion-please-dont-hurt-me-hides/page/7/#findComment-3562008 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormborn Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 the 2 lost legions shouldn't be counted in my opinion as nobody knows anything about them. The OP might want to clarify that. I always thought that 1 might have been the Legion of Doom and the other the french foreign legion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285267-the-best-legion-please-dont-hurt-me-hides/page/7/#findComment-3562022 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veteran Sergeant Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 But the Ultramarines reconquered the Imperium, basically all by itself since the other Legions were in tatters, in seven years following the Heresy. Hard to argue against that by your logic chain. The Battle of Terra wasn't the Main Event. It was just the end of Part 1. 200 years to conquer the galaxy. 7 to reconquer it. ;) Once they got rid of all the lazy, sub-par, inefficient Legions like the Alpha Legion, Word Bearers, World Eaters, etc, and put Guilliman and the Ultramarines in charge of everything, the power of logistics made things easy. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" - Sun Tzu. There you go. The line between humanity and Chaos? Logistics. Thus, Guilliman and the Ultramarines were the best legion. And then they won the franchise wars, because more than 2/3rds of "modern" Space Marines are Ultramarines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285267-the-best-legion-please-dont-hurt-me-hides/page/7/#findComment-3562027 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 the 2 lost legions shouldn't be counted in my opinion as nobody knows anything about them. The OP might want to clarify that. I always thought that 1 might have been the Legion of Doom and the other the french foreign legion.It was a well-humored joke. Although that does bring up an interesting point. Are there limits on this? Since it is in the Heresy forum, most of us naturally inferred GC/HH era. But there have been suggestions for the Black Legion(which only exists outside the Heresy) and other Legions based on post-Heresy actions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285267-the-best-legion-please-dont-hurt-me-hides/page/7/#findComment-3562028 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adra'Melek Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Cormac, you clearly didn't read the OP. You can't "...because" (paraphrasing). 2nd Legion aren't the best because they have no obvious impact on anything (other than taking up server space in an alternate universe). If Legion of Doom are the wrestlers then they are by far the best Legion. Two guys right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285267-the-best-legion-please-dont-hurt-me-hides/page/7/#findComment-3562035 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormborn Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 My understanding of the Black Legion is that were the largest warband from the Sons of Horus to survive the HH and Abandon until Abandon amalgamated the rest of the remaining Sons of Horus. That being said they are a traitor legion remnant and last time I check the traitors still came 2nd in the HH. Veteran Sergeant you make a valid point about the Ultramarines and I would agree that moving forward from the battle for Terra that the ultra's were the best legion for the third act. Yup LOD the wrestlers Hawk and Animal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285267-the-best-legion-please-dont-hurt-me-hides/page/7/#findComment-3562039 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adra'Melek Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Hawk and Animal...memories Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285267-the-best-legion-please-dont-hurt-me-hides/page/7/#findComment-3562041 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 There was no 1st place in the Heresy. There were either victors or losers. And when you cut the cloth, nobody won. The Golden Dawn of the Imperium of Man has forever been eclipsed by the Black Dusk of Stagnation and Death. That is no victory. It is survival. And it is a survival that will eventually end. Where there was once life there must now be death. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285267-the-best-legion-please-dont-hurt-me-hides/page/7/#findComment-3562050 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 My understanding of the Black Legion is that were the largest warband from the Sons of Horus to survive the HH and Abandon until Abandon amalgamated the rest of the remaining Sons of Horus. That being said they are a traitor legion remnant and last time I check the traitors still came 2nd in the HH. The Horus Heresy ? Ah, you mean the begining of the Long War ? Yeah, well, I guess I know who's really losing. Forever. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285267-the-best-legion-please-dont-hurt-me-hides/page/7/#findComment-3562051 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Cormac, you clearly didn't read the OP. You can't "...because" (paraphrasing). 2nd Legion aren't the best because they have no obvious impact on anything (other than taking up server space in an alternate universe). If Legion of Doom are the wrestlers then they are by far the best Legion. Two guys right? Oh really? No impact? I seem to remember Kol Saresk making the argument not too long ago that it was the Lost Primarchs, of which include the II, that directly led to Lorgar and his Legion falling to Chaos, the ones who planned and triggered the Heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285267-the-best-legion-please-dont-hurt-me-hides/page/7/#findComment-3562054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Well, I said..... well yeah I guess you could say I said that since memories of them motivated the Word Bearers who would become the Gal Vorbak to complete their part of the Pilgrimage and without that Lorgar never would have completed his part so yeah. I guess you could say I said that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285267-the-best-legion-please-dont-hurt-me-hides/page/7/#findComment-3562058 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormborn Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 My understanding of the Black Legion is that were the largest warband from the Sons of Horus to survive the HH and Abandon until Abandon amalgamated the rest of the remaining Sons of Horus. That being said they are a traitor legion remnant and last time I check the traitors still came 2nd in the HH. The Horus Heresy ? Ah, you mean the begining of the Long War ? Yeah, well, I guess I know who's really losing. Forever. Hanging out in the warp mutating and popping back in to real space every so often to prove you were right before getting booted back isn't winning. Given the myriad threats to humanity in 40K it is entirely possible that humanity will be wiped out long before the traitors win and the next time the traitors pop by, they get gobbled up by the nids or turned in to green goop by the angry robots, squished under the jack boots of an ork or listen to some poetry from the eldar. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285267-the-best-legion-please-dont-hurt-me-hides/page/7/#findComment-3562072 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Usabius Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I still think the best legion is the Salamanders. They're maybe not the grandest in terms of power and battle prowess, but if 17 legions would be disbanded and only one were to remain, I would vote for the Salamanders for one reason: " Other Chapters(read legions here) draw their honour from how many enemies of the Emperor they slay in His service, the Salamanders draw their honourfrom how many of his subjects they save." ~ Excubitor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285267-the-best-legion-please-dont-hurt-me-hides/page/7/#findComment-3562073 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Acid Dog Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Well, that and Abaddon doesn't want the human race to end. He's out for himself, just as Lucifer was, believing he can offer a more 'human' and 'mortal' perspective than a distant, inhuman god in the Emperor. Abaddon doesn't want the Imperium to burn and die. He wants to kill the Emperor and restart, to give humanity the future he believes it was supposed to have. He's doing it in a profoundly evil and deluded way, but... so is everyone in 40K. It's all shades of black, not even shades of grey. I recognise his motives and the fact he has a point without thinking it's the Best Way Ever. And that, I think, is what makes him all the more interesting as a character and all the more horrifying as a villain. I read your blog post on Abaddon, and I was tentatively excited by it. I don't necessarily agree with everything in it (Read: Not sure if I agree. Depends on stuff. Lots of stuff.), but I'm very interested to see more of what you might do with him.Would that you could give us everything you've got right now and we could talk about it! And it is a survival that will eventually end. Where there was once life there must now be death. What, are we saying Necrons are going to win, now? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285267-the-best-legion-please-dont-hurt-me-hides/page/7/#findComment-3562074 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 No. That everything is cyclical. Life to death, death to life. The Imperium was born, the Imperium will die. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285267-the-best-legion-please-dont-hurt-me-hides/page/7/#findComment-3562077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormborn Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Well, that and Abaddon doesn't want the human race to end. He's out for himself, just as Lucifer was, believing he can offer a more 'human' and 'mortal' perspective than a distant, inhuman god in the Emperor. Abaddon doesn't want the Imperium to burn and die. He wants to kill the Emperor and restart, to give humanity the future he believes it was supposed to have. He's doing it in a profoundly evil and deluded way, but... so is everyone in 40K. It's all shades of black, not even shades of grey. I recognise his motives and the fact he has a point without thinking it's the Best Way Ever. And that, I think, is what makes him all the more interesting as a character and all the more horrifying as a villain. I read your blog post on Abaddon, and I was tentatively excited by it. I don't necessarily agree with everything in it (Read: Not sure if I agree. Depends on stuff. Lots of stuff.), but I'm very interested to see more of what you might do with him. Would that you could give us everything you've got right now and we could talk about it! >And it is a survival that will eventually end. Where there was once life there must now be death. What, are we saying Necrons are going to win, now? Technically I suppose you could count the necrons as a legion. doesn't it go something along the lines of "we are legion because we are many". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285267-the-best-legion-please-dont-hurt-me-hides/page/7/#findComment-3562086 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Well, I said..... well yeah I guess you could say I said that since memories of them motivated the Word Bearers who would become the Gal Vorbak to complete their part of the Pilgrimage and without that Lorgar never would have completed his part so yeah. I guess you could say I said that. Neener neener. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285267-the-best-legion-please-dont-hurt-me-hides/page/7/#findComment-3562092 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormborn Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I still think the best legion is the Salamanders. They're maybe not the grandest in terms of power and battle prowess, but if 17 legions would be disbanded and only one were to remain, I would vote for the Salamanders for one reason: " Other Chapters(read legions here) draw their honour from how many enemies of the Emperor they slay in His service, the Salamanders draw their honourfrom how many of his subjects they save." ~ Excubitor. Not sure about the Salamanders least war like name for a start and breed to kill but spend time saving humans wouldn't that suggest that they fail in their primary goal? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285267-the-best-legion-please-dont-hurt-me-hides/page/7/#findComment-3562095 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karthak Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Ultimately, 40K is a doomed mythic dystopia, with no Good Guys, no Blue Team. Have you ever played Werewolf: the Apocalypse? Or played/watched/enjoyed any post-apocalyptic media, like The Walking Dead? They're not going to rebuild society, or even fight off the zombies in the end. The stories are about what happens in the world's last, enduring gasp. That's where the drama lies. I was under the impression that the Garou in Apocalypse stand a chance of winning. Sure, it's a slim chance, but not nonexistent. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285267-the-best-legion-please-dont-hurt-me-hides/page/7/#findComment-3562099 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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