marvmoogy Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Ok. I have just finished reading this and I really enjoyed it. Really enjoyed it. But there are a couple of things that really have wound me up. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Scout Sergeant Naaman died on Kalidus....yet he is alive on Python?? According to the last Codex: Grey Knights, Kaldor Draigo is set to eternally walk a path in the warp and only return to the side of his brothers when the need is greatest....yet he's sat on Titan mourning for a dead Grand Master when the cry for help comes in and off he goes on a space ship at the head of a Brotherhood (which doesn't have a Grand Master, but Crowe just happens to come along for the ride? Is it me or are these very basic errors that a simple proof-read could have ironed out? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285288-pandorax-contains-mild-spoilers/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJames70 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Ok. I have just finished reading this and I really enjoyed it. Really enjoyed it. But there are a couple of things that really have wound me up. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Scout Sergeant Naaman died on Kalidus....yet he is alive on Python?? According to the last Codex: Grey Knights, Kaldor Draigo is set to eternally walk a path in the warp and only return to the side of his brothers when the need is greatest....yet he's sat on Titan mourning for a dead Grand Master when the cry for help comes in and off he goes on a space ship at the head of a Brotherhood (which doesn't have a Grand Master, but Crowe just happens to come along for the ride? Is it me or are these very basic errors that a simple proof-read could have ironed out? Pandorax takes place in 959.M41 40 years before the 'current day' in 40K. Namaan was killed in the Piscina IV battle, which was in 997.M41. Thus he was very much alive at Pandorax. Balthasar is presented as just a Deathwing Terminator at the time in Pandorax, not even a sergeant yet. But by the time of Dark Vengeance, he would be Master of the 5th Company. There are many other examples of things like this in there. The continuity, especially with CZ Dunn's other writings on the Dark Angels, is actually pretty good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285288-pandorax-contains-mild-spoilers/#findComment-3561492 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Acid Dog Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Just to fill out the Draigo question, he would not meet M'kar at Acralem again until 999.M41. I'm not sure what the circumstances of Crowe coming along for the ride are, so I can't comment on that one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285288-pandorax-contains-mild-spoilers/#findComment-3561567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvmoogy Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 Thanks for putting me right there guys - must admit I'm relieved! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285288-pandorax-contains-mild-spoilers/#findComment-3561581 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozeryk_Sleipnijr Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 The Grey Knights seemed to have stopped killing off anyone (allies) that sees them, Seems like Logan Grimnar "taught" them the soft approach Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285288-pandorax-contains-mild-spoilers/#findComment-3561747 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumah Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I did not care for this book. It had a few cool moments (very few) but for the most part the author's characterization of the space marines just did not work for me. They seemed just way too human and about as talkative as an excited 13 year old girl at a slumber party. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285288-pandorax-contains-mild-spoilers/#findComment-3561797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvmoogy Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 I think that added a little to the story to be honest. The tension between the GKs and the DAs was great and in the showing of their 'human side' (for want of a better term) it makes the reader warm a little to them adding to the story a little. I think it would have been nice to have been told from the Space Marines side a little more than the IG / Inq but even so, I thought it was a good read Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285288-pandorax-contains-mild-spoilers/#findComment-3561829 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumah Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 The problem is, I don't want space marines to have such a strong human side. They're transhumans that never had the opportunity to grow and develop physically or psychologically in a natural way. They wouldn't and shouldn't act like you or me. That's how I see it, at least. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285288-pandorax-contains-mild-spoilers/#findComment-3561872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PATemplar Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 The problem for me that could have been caught by a "gamer" proof reader involved one of the space marine commanders going in the "rear" entrance of his landraider after addressing the assembled forces before the final push. Rhinos and razorbacks have ramps/entrances to the rear but landraiders don't. It's just a little thing but still annoying and something that could of and should of been caught if somebody who plays the game had proofread it. Proofreading doesn't seem to be a big thing with BL. Just finished reading Malodrax and the author Ben Counter screws up multiple times by calling the IF leader of the mission Chaplain Lycaon by the title Captain Lycon. Chaplain and Captain are not the same, errors like this could be caught easily by players. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285288-pandorax-contains-mild-spoilers/#findComment-3562105 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veteran Sergeant Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 The problem is, I don't want space marines to have such a strong human side. They're transhumans that never had the opportunity to grow and develop physically or psychologically in a natural way. They wouldn't and shouldn't act like you or me. That's how I see it, at least. This seems to be the problem. Authors typically either write good Space Marines, or they write good characters. Well, technically some just write bad both. But the reality is that Space Marines in 40K are fairly two-dimensional. It's part of what makes them Space Marines. The indoctrination process eradicates much of what would give them the ability to grow and develop as characters. The are incapable of change unless there is some kind of significant outside influence (Chaos!). Otherwise, their business is to roam around the galaxy murdering everyone who disagrees with them. Space Marines should be a bit grim and matter-of-fact. Perhaps with a bit of gallows humor. But this is an individual with very few long term goals, very little motivation for material gain. They're basically as alien to us as the Eldar would be. Perhaps even moreso since self preservation isn't a huge factor for Space Marines either. I think typically authors know they have to put Space Marines in the book because they're the stars of the universe. And they decide to just write the Space Marines however it's easiest rather than really getting down to the nitty gritty and figuring out how a hundred year old transhuman would actually behave, think, or talk in a given situation. There was a Deathwatch audiodrama that sounded like an 80s buddy cop action movie, complete with subtle gay joke. It was so bad it was humorous. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285288-pandorax-contains-mild-spoilers/#findComment-3562289 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumah Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I agree it's difficult, but it can be done as ADB has proven, especially with his Night Lords series. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285288-pandorax-contains-mild-spoilers/#findComment-3562435 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 The depiction of Epimetheus at the end was pretty grim. I enjoyed the book all in all. Some parts went a bit slowly, and the DA Chapter Master seemed like such an ass, surely great leaders should be pragmatic and willing to compromise? He purposefully left a GK brotherhood out of a fight AGAINST DAEMONS just so he could get all the glory. Epimetheus seemed more like a neophyte or young marine than the massively powerful veteran grandmaster that he is supposed to be, mind-set wise. He was the main reason I liked it though, I'm a sucker for anything about HH era GK. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285288-pandorax-contains-mild-spoilers/#findComment-3566943 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurgling6688 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Just finished Pandorax and I am surprised no one has brought this up here. Am I correct in thinking that Epimetheus is actually Zahariel from the heresy novels? It seems heavily implied that he is a Dark Angel and seeing as how that is the only psychic Dark Angel we really know from the heresy I feel it has to be him. They also imply that he is a Fallen which would also fit with Zahariel since he stayed on Caliban.Abbadon also seems to imply that Loken is dead since when he is guessing Epimetheus' identity he says he cannot be his once brother since he saw him die. Seems like he found out Loken survived Isstvan and became a proto Grey Knight only to die later in front of Abaddon. Although I guess he could be talking about Iacton Quarze(sp?). To me this was the most interesting part of the novel, the rest of it had its moments but the majority of it felt like a saturday morning cartoon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285288-pandorax-contains-mild-spoilers/#findComment-3590306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvmoogy Posted February 9, 2014 Author Share Posted February 9, 2014 that is a REALLY good point I didn't consider at all.....that would be incredible, but alas I don't think we'll ever find out Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285288-pandorax-contains-mild-spoilers/#findComment-3590386 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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