depthcharge12 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Hello brothers, Thought I'd stop in from my usual shenanigans in the heresy. I had a question concerning Tycho as he is a beast and has plenty of modeling opportunities. My question is regarding his Dead Man's hand. It says in the entry that it "ignores all armor saves" however we all know this was from 5th edition. The FAQ doesn't say anything about it, however the rule book says that all special weapons count as AP3. Yet Abaddons sword is Ap2 and it said ignores all armor saves. So AP2 or 3? What do you guys think? Thanks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285333-tychos-dead-mans-hand-ap-2-or-3/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 It doesn't have an AP value, his attacks just ignore armor and rolls 2D6 for pen. So no extras on the vehicle damage table. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285333-tychos-dead-mans-hand-ap-2-or-3/#findComment-3562350 Share on other sites More sharing options...
xmercx Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 It doesn't have an AP value, his attacks just ignore armor and rolls 2D6 for pen. So no extras on the vehicle damage table. I'm inclined to agree with this but to muddy the waters a bit, ignoring armor would technically be AP 1 would it not? (rules as written thou, it has no AP value atm unless its in the digital dex somewhere, don't have that) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285333-tychos-dead-mans-hand-ap-2-or-3/#findComment-3562354 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 And what do you guys imagine the hand to be like? I took it literally and thought it was his left hand that had the skeletal artifice on it. I'm thinking it's like a phase knife that reaches through armor, which IMHO is pretty ba :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285333-tychos-dead-mans-hand-ap-2-or-3/#findComment-3562358 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanguine Eternal Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 It doesn't have an AP value, his attacks just ignore armor and rolls 2D6 for pen. So no extras on the vehicle damage table. I'm inclined to agree with this but to muddy the waters a bit, ignoring armor would technically be AP 1 would it not? (rules as written thou, it has no AP value atm unless its in the digital dex somewhere, don't have that) That depends on who you're fighting. Ignoring armour can be anywhere from a 6+ save to a 2+ save... So no, it wouldn't necessarily be AP1. He just punches things and they die. The way I see it is its half way between a powerfist. Strikes at Init, but not nearly as strong since its his base str. instead of str.8 or 9. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285333-tychos-dead-mans-hand-ap-2-or-3/#findComment-3562366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
xmercx Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 And what do you guys imagine the hand to be like? I took it literally and thought it was his left hand that had the skeletal artifice on it. I'm thinking it's like a phase knife that reaches through armor, which IMHO is pretty ba the GW model is sculpted with the left hand/arm to be the dead man's hand afaik. Anything kind of funky armor wise would probably work. I was going to use a 1k son arm for my kit bash till I found a bionic arm I liked a little better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285333-tychos-dead-mans-hand-ap-2-or-3/#findComment-3562377 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 No AP listed, so it has no AP. It just ignores armour saves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285333-tychos-dead-mans-hand-ap-2-or-3/#findComment-3562871 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAZ_AV_NZ Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Its clear for fighting creatures/units as it states ignores ALL ARMOUR SAVES Invulnerable saves only BUT Hes good at punching vehicles so it needs clarification to determine if its AP1 or AP2 for vehicle penetration results what that what you were wanting to know? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285333-tychos-dead-mans-hand-ap-2-or-3/#findComment-3562960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 That would be helpful too Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285333-tychos-dead-mans-hand-ap-2-or-3/#findComment-3563142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 No AP listed, so it has no AP. It just ignores armour saves. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Hes good at punching vehicles so it needs clarification to determine if its AP1 or AP2 for vehicle penetration results It's not complicated. If he doesn't have an AP he doesn't have an AP. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285333-tychos-dead-mans-hand-ap-2-or-3/#findComment-3563186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 But now does it have the penalty for having ap - ? IIRC that means -1 on the damage charts Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285333-tychos-dead-mans-hand-ap-2-or-3/#findComment-3563222 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 But now does it have the penalty for having ap - ? IIRC that means -1 on the damage charts That penalty doesn't exist anymore. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285333-tychos-dead-mans-hand-ap-2-or-3/#findComment-3563223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongGone Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Just realized how much of a BAMF Tycho could be... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285333-tychos-dead-mans-hand-ap-2-or-3/#findComment-3563227 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 But now does it have the penalty for having ap - ? IIRC that means -1 on the damage charts No, Tycho is not AP-, his close combat attacks do not have an AP value, they simply ignore armour. Ignoring armour saves does not mean AP1. Nor does not having an AP value mean AP- (An argument which has a logical flaw in it...). It's not complicated. If he doesn't have an AP he doesn't have an AP.^^ It's as simple as this Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285333-tychos-dead-mans-hand-ap-2-or-3/#findComment-3563233 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 But now does it have the penalty for having ap - ?IIRC that means -1 on the damage charts No, Tycho is not AP-, his close combat attacks do not have an AP value, they simply ignore armour.Ignoring armour saves does not mean AP1. Nor does not having an AP value mean AP- (An argument which has a logical flaw in it...).It's not complicated. If he doesn't have an AP he doesn't have an AP.^^ It's as simple as this :) Thanks I guess I was making it more complicated than it need be haha Just realized how much of a BAMF Tycho could be... Yes indeed. Ld10 to the whole army, 2+4++, a combi melta that shoots special ammo, and he ignores armor saves and 2d6 armor pen. I intend on putting him with a stern guard squad and possibly a divination Libby muwhahahaha Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285333-tychos-dead-mans-hand-ap-2-or-3/#findComment-3563242 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongGone Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 He's definitely on my list of models to kitbash then. His actual mini is a little on the heinous side. I'm thinking something along the lines of what xmercx did... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285333-tychos-dead-mans-hand-ap-2-or-3/#findComment-3563275 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongGone Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Oh oh Oh! While we're on the topic of our Crazed Captain, what form do you guys usually take him in? Yes indeed. Ld10 to the whole army, 2+4++, a combi melta that shoots special ammo, and he ignores armor saves and 2d6 armor pen.I intend on putting him with a stern guard squad and possibly a divination Libby muwhahahaha See, I would think that you would want to take DC Tycho to take advantage of his Super Punch of Awesomeness. +1 Attack and +1 WS to his statline seems to add to it. Stick him with some bolter DC and bam! Is there a drawback that I'm not seeing? In his normal form, I agree that Sternguard would be the best fit. But it seems like you're wasting the potential assault power in a shooty squad. The rites of battle rule could be pretty handy though. What do you guys use to determine what form you're taking Tycho in? LG Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285333-tychos-dead-mans-hand-ap-2-or-3/#findComment-3563347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanguine Eternal Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Oh oh Oh! While we're on the topic of our Crazed Captain, what form do you guys usually take him in? Yes indeed. Ld10 to the whole army, 2+4++, a combi melta that shoots special ammo, and he ignores armor saves and 2d6 armor pen. I intend on putting him with a stern guard squad and possibly a divination Libby muwhahahaha See, I would think that you would want to take DC Tycho to take advantage of his Super Punch of Awesomeness. +1 Attack and +1 WS to his statline seems to add to it. Stick him with some bolter DC and bam! Is there a drawback that I'm not seeing? In his normal form, I agree that Sternguard would be the best fit. But it seems like you're wasting the potential assault power in a shooty squad. The rites of battle rule could be pretty handy though. What do you guys use to determine what form you're taking Tycho in? LG Problem with his DC form is that he CANNOT join the DC. He's not listed as an independent character, therefor must roam the battlefield all by his lonesome. Sucks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285333-tychos-dead-mans-hand-ap-2-or-3/#findComment-3563365 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I think ignoring armor is not an AP value, it ignores armor, i.e. disallows any armor save whatsoever. Probably will be rectified to become AP3 in a future data slate, or the new codex, unfortunately. As for what it looks like, it's normally supposed to be just a digiweapon of some kind, but I just painted mine with a bonish left hand: http://image.bolterandchainsword.com/uploads/gallery/album_8363/gallery_60983_8363_11935.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285333-tychos-dead-mans-hand-ap-2-or-3/#findComment-3563478 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongGone Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Problem with his DC form is that he CANNOT join the DC. He's not listed as an independent character, therefor must roam the battlefield all by his lonesome. Sucks. What? Madness! Wishlist 2014: That ridiculousness changes! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285333-tychos-dead-mans-hand-ap-2-or-3/#findComment-3563612 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanguine Eternal Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Yup. You, me, and everyone else brother. Lets hope. Sometimes I just proxy him in as a power fist. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285333-tychos-dead-mans-hand-ap-2-or-3/#findComment-3563723 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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