Sable claw in close combat

[SvenONE]

SvenONE,

You do know that the speeder has a 4++.

So in a way they did figure out how to give an extra HP.

I know you all know the difference between T5 and AV14, but when you get on these rants about how much something sucks, you tend to forget that little mechanic. Let me remind you.

It only takes S3 in order to cause a wound on T5.

It only takes S8 in order to cause damage to AV14.

Hmm... that means that when facing an IG army the speeder only has to worry about heavy weapons (Like Missile Launchers, Battle Cannons, Lascannons and Melta weapons.)

The Jetbike on the other hand also has to worry about everything in that IG army from lasguns and CCW to every type of heavy weapon.

Now this isn't to say that there won't be LOTS of heavy weapons in the typical IG army, it is just to say that it won't be every weapon in the army.

But you will find that for every 3 melta guns in a IG Vet squad there will be 6 lasguns and 1 laspistol.

So in that one squad you have 3 weapons that can hurt the Land Speeder and 10 that can hurt the Jetbike.

But hey if all you are only into marine on marine action then yes the Jetbike is armed for the task.

However if you ever face a Chaos Cultists, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Imperial guard, Necrons, Orks, Tau, or Tyranids you will be better served by the speeder.

I think you misunderstand me, and it was hardly a rant. Sableclaw isn't bad by any means, I simply think when you start to look at the cost vs firepower of OTHER units in our codex, it starts to look a lot less attractive than it is. When the other options include a Vindicator, Devastators (plasma, hbs or mls, take your pick), Predators, Whirlwinds, heck you can even get 3x RWSS with HB/ACs for cheaper AND will deal out more wounds, point is, I think you can get better anti-infantry with points leftover for other goodies without also the threat of giving up a slay the warlord. Bear in mind that you can't really sit at 24" since the AC can't kill units beyond that, you really have to sit at ~22"-20" depending on how your enemy is positioning his units, so it's hardly like Sableclaw will be out of range that can kill him.

You use Necrons, Eldar and Dark Eldar in your example of a great use of Sableclaw. Armies that often come with Gauss, Haywire and Lance weapons, Tau aren't great with AV14, but this isn't a landraider they have to deal with, they can effectively ignore Sammael and destroy everything else around him. Not to mention DE has a pretty strong chance of assaulting, in fact a Trueborn Venom with Nightshields (a staple DE unit) would be a real problem. Heck, even a blood angels assault squad can probably pop him in one turn.

I think the pros of being able to attach him in a command squad (bear in mind that you've also got an RWGL with that) with an Apothocary, or followed by a Dark Shroud and his AP2 sword far outweigh the pros of sableclaw, which can pretty much be done with anything else in our codex for cheaper or greater effectiveness.

[ValourousHeart]

SvenONE,

 

Only the very fist part was directed to you (the 4++ part).

 

I addressed "You All" in the next part to be inclusive of everyone reading this. I can be just as guilty as the next person when it comes to tunnel vision. So I wasn't personally attacking you, just highlighting a clear point that generally seems to be missed.

 

Comparing apples to apples, jet bike to speeder, that IG vet squad has less than a 5% chance to do fatal damage to the speeder with the anti armor order. Conversely that same squad will get 2+ wounds past any saves that jet bike has with 1 round of first rank second rank.

 

I do agree that there are better damage out put units in our codex. My point was that except vs marines, the speeder does more damage than the jet bike. And while I agree that a vindicator is a great unit, you will never drop Sammie for a vindicator or anything else in the HS, FA, or Elite sections.

 

The reason you are considering Sammie is because you want RW as troops. And that means your choices are Sammie or Azreal. And as great as Azreal is, he doesn't deal near the damage that Sammie does in either form for the cost.

 

Now some will bring up the fact that the jetbike is an IC, and you can field him with a RWCS. This is very true. But the speeder doesn't prevent you from taking a RWCS, but your opponent now has to make the choice on which to target.

 

The same goes with the 3 HB/AC speeders running with Sammie. Which do you target? The AV10 with a 5+ jink or the AV14 with a 4++ inv?

 

My opponents generally chose the normal speeder.

 

You also brought up the effective range point. The jetbike with the RWCS Has an effective range 15-18". An you risk hitting your own unit if you fire it at targets less than 8" away. Not to mention the chance to get hot.

[Interrogator Stobz]

...Comparing apples to apples, jet bike to speeder, that IG vet squad has less than a 5% chance to do fatal damage to the speeder with the anti armor order. Conversely that same squad will get 2+ wounds past any saves that jet bike has with 1 round of first rank second rank...

.

...You also brought up the effective range point. The jetbike with the RWCS Has an effective range 15-18". An you risk hitting your own unit if you fire it at targets less than 8" away. Not to mention the chance to get hot.

 

Hey VH; I agree with most of your points about Sableclaw being a good option, I don't totally agree with the above though.

They just aren't apples and apples, the reason I say this is back to the OPs question about CC, Sableclaw cannot get into CC voluntarily and is always a viable target should the IG or HW teams choose to score a Warlord kill. If Corvex is in the shorter shooting range that you mention then the IG squad(s) is(are) dead (or even better locked up) in the CC phase. I wouldn't even use the PC against a soft target either, either use the bolters or just multicharge everything to lock them up. That ability to me is what makes Corvex the auto-include, I like others use other units to provide high rate of fire shooting.

To each their own though, I am glad you use Sableclaw and can provide this much needed feedback.

 

:D

stobz