From the Lair : Star Phantoms

[YoungWolf7]

School is finally over. (I don't recommend going back to college at age 40.)

I did manage to get back to the hobby over the holidays, although it cut into my Xbox time.

I've elected to focus on my Star Phantoms and actually settle down on a build. I keep coming up with ideas after starting into assembly line production and I inevitably wind up tearing apart models to retrofit. This has been the story of my models for the past 4+ years.

One of the primary concerns I have looking back at "finished" models is that the proportions are wrong. Consider the following images (all images copyright Games Workshop/Forge World):

http://youngwolf7.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Mk7_Proportions1-100x150.jpg http://youngwolf7.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Terminator_Proportions1-99x150.jpg

With DaVinci's classic "vitruvian man" superimposed over a standard marine and a terminator you can see the problem right away. Neither seems to
have an abdomen. The marine is closer, but the terminator is pretty ridiculous. (I'm sure this topic has been discussed many times before.)

What started this line of investigation? Primarily an old post on From the Warp by Ron Saikowski titled "My truescale model vs. a standard terminator".
I've read this one numerous times, including the day it was published. (Come back Ron!) I finally sat down and did the Photoshop work to verify Ron's assumptions that the proportions were off. So what to do?

The terminators are an "easy" fix and I'll be using the basic premise that Ron has shown on his blog combined with my own ideas. Using Photoshop to show the proposed changes yields this:

http://youngwolf7.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Mk7_Proportions2-96x150.jpg http://youngwolf7.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Terminator_Proportions2-92x150.jpg

The terminators need space for the abdomen and the arms lowered. The more tricky bit is the marine. I've cut it below the belt as that is how the model pieces are. I could live with the belt being that high, but I'm not sure that i want to sculpt abdomens for an entire company worth of marines. I've mocked up the terminators and they look MUCH better in my humble opinion. They tower over the marines, as they should. Pictures coming soon. The jury is still out on the marines. So much work already...

[deathspectersgt7]

Will be watching

[Honda]

I too am a big fan of Ron's tutorial and in fact, I just finished completing a unit of 10 assault terminators for my Templars using his, what I would call "right sizing" tutorial. You can see the results in my Crusade thread in the Templars forum.

 

I ended up just leaving the regular armor as is. Yes, it could be made more anatomically correct. The question you have to ask yourself (which you did) is, "do I REALLY want to do that?"

 

If the answer is still yes, I would recommend making 5 or so leg sets, then casting them to get the amount of troopers you need for you force. I can tell you that the terminator exercise was a fair bit of green stuff.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with this.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

Like you, the proportions of the marines have bothered me for some time, and I most Truescalers tend to go with lengthening the legs and arms, which is not what needs to be changed imo. As you pointed out, the waist is too short and I generally use a spacer between the legs and torso on multi-part plastics or others that I can saw in half easily enough, like Finecast, and I also think the thighs need to be bulked up some.

 

Here's a conversion I did, and forgot to snap a very early WIP shot, but you can see the white plastic tubing spacer I put between the Finecast legs and the plastic torso:

 

http://i.imgur.com/v8JToIv.jpg

 

A Space Wolf conversion I started but didn't get out of the mock-up stage to the point of putting the spacer in:

 

http://i.imgur.com/DlS5xl2.jpg

 

And another conversion that never got finished with a better look at the spacer:

 

http://i.imgur.com/3LbGQ40.jpg

 

 

If you separate the marine above the belt, it's easier to correct, and if need be, you can just pile on, or sculpt, a bunch of pouches or something else around the waist to cover it up.

[Lord Marshal Ragnrok]

STAR PHANTOMS! got my interest!

[The_Chaplain]

Star Phantoms, eh? You've piqued my curiosity. 

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

I just want to commend you, Chaplain, for spelling 'piqued' correctly.

[The_Chaplain]

I just want to commend you, Chaplain, for spelling 'piqued' correctly.

Haha, thank you BCK. College paid off it seems, if for no other reason than rekindling my love of the written word.

Back on topic: besides the true scaling of marines, what other projects are you hoping to tackle for your star phantoms?

[YoungWolf7]

Thanks all.

BCK: I've been following your thread, but totally missed the plastic tubing spacer idea. I'll have to browse through my stock to see if I can find something suitable. Of course I was already two full tac squads into the build before thinking about this. I'm not keen on cutting 100+ torsos above the belt though. I'll try adding the spacer below and see what I think. I've also had a friend suggest I 3D sculpt a spacer and have it printed, then cast as many as I need.

Honda: I am at that point with the PA troops. If I can find a simple enough method like BCK suggested that I'm happy with I will proceed. Otherwise I'll just forge ahead without. I'm to the point of sculpting the addition on 5 terminator torsos. It's late here so I'll try to post pics tomorrow.

The_Chaplain / BCK: Thank you both for the proper spelling. I've always been cognizant of spelling errors, especially homonyms. Spelling bees tend to reinforce that in a child.

More tomorrow hopefully.

[YoungWolf7]

BTW - this army is rising out of the ashes of my abandoned Punishing Angels project. I shouldn't have tried to start that while in school / working full time / family / kids / grandchild / chaos. Had I not read IA10 I would still be working on that. The Phantoms were interesting (and vague) enough for me to switch horses so to speak.

[Veteran Sergeant]

I may just leave this right here.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

Thanks all.

BCK: I've been following your thread, but totally missed the plastic tubing spacer idea. I'll have to browse through my stock to see if I can find something suitable. Of course I was already two full tac squads into the build before thinking about this. I'm not keen on cutting 100+ torsos above the belt though. I'll try adding the spacer below and see what I think. I've also had a friend suggest I 3D sculpt a spacer and have it printed, then cast as many as I need.

What I've started to do is just completely remove the belt and tiny abdomen area, stretch the torso with the plastic tubing spacer, and make a new belt out of thin plastic strip.

[Ch@oZ]

 

What I've started to do is just completely remove the belt and tiny abdomen area, stretch the torso with the plastic tubing spacer, and make a new belt out of thin plastic strip.

 

Also, i presume, it would be fairly easy to cut a strip of 0,25mm plasticard, glue it on the underside with a smaller strip to make a circle and easily form it into any circle/ellipsoidal shape, filling the inside with green stuff. That's what i'm planning to do to my terminators at least. 

[disease]

One of my favourite chapters is being true-scaled, huzzar!

[YoungWolf7]

disease: I wouldn't call it "true-scaled", more like the "right-sized" term that Honda used. I don't want to go down the road of making vehicles bigger, etc.

[disease]

Ok, but 'biggerised' SP force is always welcome in my books! I'm actually planning a loyalist force based on SP rules and general methodology, but with a few limitations and flaws. Won't be for quite a while yet (death guard to complete first). So I'll just hang out on this thread in awe instead.

[YoungWolf7]

The_Chaplain asked:

Back on topic: besides the true scaling of marines, what other projects are you hoping to tackle for your star phantoms?

The plan is actually quite large in scope. Originally I wanted to build an entire chapter. Finances and college curbed that desire a bit, so I'm working on a company or three.

What motivated me to switch to Star Phantoms was the bit of speculation that they are Dark Angels successors. Both chapters deny it, but denial often leads to "The lady doth protest too much, methinks." As my Punishing Angels were intended as a DA successor, the mental link was formed and the switch made.

The grand scheme is to build a hybrid chapter organization that leverages both the C: DA and C: SM codices, with the Star Phantoms preference for heavy weapons in mind.

1st Company (Mortiswing) [C: DA / C: SM]

This will house 50+ of the chapter's Tactical Dreadnought Armor veterans, as well as both Sternguard and Vanguard veterans. Preference given to the Sternguard, but the Vanguard have their place as well.

2nd Company (Wraithwing) [C: DA]

Essentially straight Ravenwing models. I'm planning on 6 full Attack Squadrons plus extras.

3rd - 5th Companies (Battle) [C: SM]

Primary battle companies, modified to 5 Tactical, 2 Assault, and 3 Devastator squads for the Star Phantom philosophy. I will also have at least one Stormwing (1 Stormraven & 2 Stormtalons) attached to each along with other dedicated transports.

6th - 7th Companies (Tactical Reserve) [C: SM]

Standard 10 Tactical squads with transport. I know the 7th is usually the biker reserve squadron, but this is a hybrid.

8th Company (Assault Reserve) [C: SM]

Standard 10 Assault squads with 1 Stormraven.

9th Company (Devastator Reserve) [C: SM]

Everyone's favorite Star Phantom company. I'm planning on 10 Devastator squads along with 3 Centurion squads.

10th Company (Scouts) [C: SM]

There is no standard here, but I'm planning on 10 Scout squads with 5 Land Speeder Storms. I have 100+ of the OOP metal scouts already so I might as well build the whole company.

I currently have enough models and loose parts to build the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 10th companies, possibly enough for the 4th as well. I'm going to focus on the 1st & 3rd to start and see how far I get before changing the plan yet again.

[The_Chaplain]

Everyone's favorite Star Phantom company. I'm planning on 10 Devastator squads along with 3 Centurion squads.

 

Indeed, because Captain Androcles is a friggin' beast! An ambitious project for sure, but one I'm very much excited for! 

[YoungWolf7]

True to my typical hobby form, I can't stick to one particular thing for very long before some other shiny idea distracts me, usually while waiting for something to set up or just poking around on one of my hobby benches. I was anxious to start testing breech cloths/loincloths. I'm pretty set on every model having one similar to this image: (click images for a larger version)

 

http://youngwolf7.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Sergeant-101x150.jpg

 

In addition to the "cool" factor, the black will help to break up all of the white in the scheme and display the chapter's icon from the front of the model. I'm leaning towards black pauldrons as well, but that's getting ahead of myself. I started playing around with putty and freehand sculpted this attempt:

 

http://youngwolf7.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/01_Breechcloth-Try1-112x150.jpg

 

Too narrow and too short. Reminds me of a towel that a quarterback might have to wipe his hands on.

 

Next two attempts:

 

http://youngwolf7.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/02_Breechcloth-Try2-112x150.jpg http://youngwolf7.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/03_Breechcloth-Try3-112x150.jpg

 

Getting closer to what I want. Using these I came up with measurements that I liked and cut a "mold" out of .030 styrene. These were the first two tries on more tester models:

 

http://youngwolf7.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/04_Breechcloth-MoldTest1-112x150.jpg http://youngwolf7.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/05_Breechcloth-MoldTest2-112x150.jpg

 

The first was cut short accidentally, the second came out pretty well. Feeling confident I made two more using the remaining putty, this time on "live" models:

 

http://youngwolf7.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/06_Breechcloth-MoldTest3-150x112.jpg

 

I'm pretty happy with them. I just need to make eight more to finish that squad. I still had a little more putty (always mix more than you think you will need) so I cut a larger mold for terminators and tested one out. Pic below.

 

"Right-Sizing"

All of the putty testing was done while the Apoxie set up in the torsos of my terminators. Here they are with the torsos pinned to the legs and the heads merely set in place:

 

http://youngwolf7.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/07_TerminatorTest1-112x150.jpg http://youngwolf7.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/08_TerminatorTest2-112x150.jpg http://youngwolf7.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/09_TerminatorTest3-112x150.jpg http://youngwolf7.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/10_TerminatorTest4-112x150.jpg http://youngwolf7.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/11_TerminatorTest5-112x150.jpghttp://youngwolf7.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/12_TerminatorTestProportions-112x150.jpg

 

I'm really digging the breech cloth on the terminators. I'm still trying to decide whether or not to extend them into full front tabards. I shaved the icon from the front in anticipation of this, but I'm waffling. I might sculpt something else instead since I have to fill in the midriff anyway.

 

I'm not a fan of the standard terminator helmet, but I really like the "knightly" feel of the Grey Knight Paladin heads, so I picked up a lot for my army. They take a little modification to fit in the standard terminator torso, but I think the effort is worth the look.

The skull belt buckles are shaved down resin skulls picked up on eBay.

 

Here's a size comparison with a standard (AoBR) marine, a standard (AoBR) terminator, and my newly proportioned terminator, along with a side by side of my marine and terminator:

 

http://youngwolf7.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/13_TerminatorTestScale1-150x112.jpg http://youngwolf7.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/14_TerminatorTestScale2-150x112.jpghttp://youngwolf7.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/15_ScaleComp-150x112.jpg

 

I'm pretty sure I'll just stick with the standard marine as it's not that far off and would be a lot more work, although I have other ideas for a Chaos force that the "right-sizing" of a marine would look great in and would be a smaller amount of bodies to convert. i have determined that 5/16" styrene tubing would make the perfect spacer for the terminators, if I could reliably cut 2mm lengths. I'll just stick with the putty to fill the gaps as it will be faster and easier than fiddling with the tubing.

 

For any that might be wondering, the entire force will be based on the "Desecrated Lands" bases series from Dragon Forge, sculpted by Mathieu Fontaine and produced by Jeff Wilhelm. I can't say enough good things about Jeff and Dragon Forge. Great products, great service, all-around great to work with. If you're in the market for custom resin bases, definitely give Dragon Forge a look!

[Biohazard]

Looking really good mate. Loving the Terminator and loincloths.

[Blissful Brushes]

The terminators need space for the abdomen and the arms lowered. The more tricky bit is the marine. I've cut it below the belt as that is how the model pieces are. I could live with the belt being that high, but I'm not sure that i want to sculpt abdomens for an entire company worth of marines. I've mocked up the terminators and they look MUCH better in my humble opinion. They tower over the marines, as they should. Pictures coming soon. The jury is still out on the marines. So much work already...

 

They shouldn't tower over marines. Do not forget that beneath the armour the marines are the same. They should be far broader, yes, but the height difference at the eye level should be minimal, if not non-existant.

[YoungWolf7]

Biohazard: Thanks mate. Now get back to your Phantoms. ;)

 

Blissful Brushes: That is true. I prefer to think of TDA as more of an exo-suit rather than just another suit of armor. The Centurion is an extreme example of this. As I'm fond of telling other people, "They are your models, if they make you happy then great!" :)

[Honda]

@YW7: Looking good. I think the tabard is a no brainer as far as the look goes. You may want to wait to apply these until you've sculpted the waists. I can see where there might be issues in getting them to match up otherwise.

 

Also, I like the GK helmets (I used those as well) vs. standard termie helmets. Besides being knightly and all, they just look better.

 

Is it your practice to do a test model once you've got the sculpting down? I'm curious to see how your scheme settles out.

[YoungWolf7]

Honda: I've been away from my brushes for over 4 years while studying in school. Although I'm looking forward to getting back to them, it's going to be a rough learning curve to get back to where I was before. So to answer your question, I'm not in a big hurry to lay paint down. I've got to get my spray booth up & running as priming outside in below freezing temps in Utah isn't a great plan. Once I get that sorted, I've got a couple boxes worth of AoBR marines to prime and tinker around with.

[Honda]

If you don't already have one, then consider getting a good airbrush. It will revolutionize (and greatly speed up) the application of base coats and zenithal highlighting. I fought getting one for years and now I look back on that time and think "What an idiot".

 

That way you can focus brushes on detailing and let the smooth base coating get handled by the professional. ;)