irwit Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Hi all I'm struggling to try and put together a decent GK list. I want some terminators but I am struggling, outside of a landraider, how you get these guys in range without them getting shot up. Maybe where I am getting lost is the deep strike rules. After I have arrived via deep strike, my unit is all bunched up. Obviously this isn't good and I want to spread out. I want to shoot but can I also move that turn during the assault phase to spread out? Maybe this is where I am getting lost as some locator becons could probably help me out a lot here and make deep strike a bit more useful? Also would allied locator becons works if I brought some space marine allies? Cheers all Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285374-is-deep-striking-really-a-good-option/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I don't Deep Strike my GKT. We get no real DS enablers (Servo Skulls don't count!), no Descent of Angels, no Deathwing Assault, no Drop Pods. And you trigger Coteaz and Interceptors. Usually, I just footslog my GKT. Deploy them towards the front edge of my DZ and walk and spew Relentless Psycannons. If you don't face Servo Skulls, you could consider giving them Scout via a GKGM or now attached Inquisitor with book of Scout on a Ld test (can't remember the name). I've never tried embarking them into a Chimera, but it could work. A locator beacon doesn't work, unless you ally in Red Hunters, as you need to be Battle Brothers. But Grey Kngihts do have access to Locator Beacons (that aren't Mystics!). The most up to date rules for our Stormraven are found in Death from the Skies, which gives Stormravens Locator Beacons as an option. Whether this is RAI, or just sloppy Cut & Pasting, is up for debate. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285374-is-deep-striking-really-a-good-option/#findComment-3563477 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Space Marines aren't Battle Brother outside of FW Chapter Tactics for Red Hunters. Thus, no. Locator Bacon will not work. Usually, I am not a big fan of DS outside of Drop Pods. Bunched up, can't move, can mishap and are at the mercy of reserve rolls. As GK you have alternate deployment methods, no? Grand Strategy comes to mind. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285374-is-deep-striking-really-a-good-option/#findComment-3563481 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ania Redfang Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Mordrak is worth considering. He may not have the best squad options (terminators but without access to special weapons) but in terms of Deep Striking you can't get much better than turn one no scatter arrival. Still won't be able to assault though... Something to consider. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285374-is-deep-striking-really-a-good-option/#findComment-3563564 Share on other sites More sharing options...
irwit Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 Ive been looking at Mordrak but its maybe a bit more risky as if he goes, everyone goes. Certainly something to think about though. So my other plan of rolling a mystic up in a chimera or something. Does the mystic power work while he is inside a transport. Also my other question. Do I deepstrike, shoot, then run in the assault phase? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285374-is-deep-striking-really-a-good-option/#findComment-3563569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Yup, the Mystic works while Embarked, and the range is measured from the vehicles hull. Nope, if you shoot, you can't run. It's a shame there aren't any Mystics in C:I, or you could take the Scout Book on an Inquisitor to Scout a Mystic upfield. I can't remember if there's any options to take Teleport Homers in C:I, but as Battle Brothers to the GK, that might be an option... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285374-is-deep-striking-really-a-good-option/#findComment-3563576 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanPesci Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 running is done in the shooting phase, so you either shoot or run. In the assault phase, you can only try to assualt (you cant choose to run), which is disallowed if deep striking. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285374-is-deep-striking-really-a-good-option/#findComment-3563583 Share on other sites More sharing options...
irwit Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 Ah ok, me being a noob. So you can either get a turns shooting off and stay bunched or spread out and lose a turns shooting. Not great either way really then. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285374-is-deep-striking-really-a-good-option/#findComment-3563584 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I want some terminators but I am struggling, outside of a landraider, how you get these guys in range without them getting shot up. The thing you're looking for, it's called a Storm Raven. Consult the Fast Attack section ;) As much as people dump on Derpstrike (hey, I'm on that merry bandwagon too), Terminators are one of the few units you can do it with that don't suck. Interceptor Riptides aside (because they're broken insanity GW never playtested), quad-guns don't do much to 2+ saves normally. Use terrain (they can't Interceptor you if they don't have LoS) or locator beacons to position them where needed. Ravens can bring a locator beacon into position, meaning you can deliver multiple squads to one location despite only having capacity for one squad. My biggest piece of advice would be to Combat Squad. 5-man Terminator units can and will eat entire enemy squads with ease, and they can only Intercept one (which is how you get around Riptides, assuming you don't just jam a DK greatsword through their face). Also, Run after landing if you're worried about blast damage. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285374-is-deep-striking-really-a-good-option/#findComment-3563713 Share on other sites More sharing options...
irwit Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 Yeah i have thought about that but couple of issues I see. Firstly can the locator beacon be used on the turn that the stromraven arrives? Secondly, you are leaving things to the dice, what if your grey knighst arrives turn two but the storm raven arrives turn 3 ? I dont really want to build a force around the chnaces that the stormraven comes in on the correct turn. It is a good transport still though and could carry 6 TDAs. Just a bit risky if it gets shot down I feel. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285374-is-deep-striking-really-a-good-option/#findComment-3564363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Caloth Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Use your BC or GM and pop psychic communion. Or if you roll number 6 on the div table, that lets you roll 3 dice and choose. And no, the beacon must be on the table at the start of the turn to be used Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285374-is-deep-striking-really-a-good-option/#findComment-3564367 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Which is another thumbs up for taking a Skyshield and starting the Raven on it. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285374-is-deep-striking-really-a-good-option/#findComment-3564369 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boreas Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I though you could assign a unit in reserve to a transport (even non-dedicated) in reserve and roll only 1 dice (you had to declare so beforehand when declaring reserves)? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285374-is-deep-striking-really-a-good-option/#findComment-3564477 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 You can. :) I think the discussion is about using the Stormravens Locator Beacon to bring other units in reserve in without Scatter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285374-is-deep-striking-really-a-good-option/#findComment-3564484 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boreas Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 OOoooohhhhhh... Must take more coffee :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285374-is-deep-striking-really-a-good-option/#findComment-3564500 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Firstly can the locator beacon be used on the turn that the stromraven arrives? No. In order to forge the narrative, you need to give your opponent an entire turn to react to what you are doing. Which means against a competent general, your Ravens becomes a flaming pile of wreckage. Secondly, you are leaving things to the dice, what if your grey knighst arrives turn two but the storm raven arrives turn 3 ? I dont really want to build a force around the chnaces that the stormraven comes in on the correct turn. It is a good transport still though and could carry 6 TDAs. Just a bit risky if it gets shot down I feel. That's why Grandmasters and Inquisitors come with 'Communion', to fix that exact problem. Alternatively, if you're going Reserve heavy, a Comms Relay on your Aegis line is pretty hella sweet. Which is another thumbs up for taking a Skyshield and starting the Raven on it. I want to believe, I really do. But you know that's just a First Blood sitting gift-wrapped in your DZ. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285374-is-deep-striking-really-a-good-option/#findComment-3564669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Caloth Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 At least it gets a 4++ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285374-is-deep-striking-really-a-good-option/#findComment-3564736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 That. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285374-is-deep-striking-really-a-good-option/#findComment-3564767 Share on other sites More sharing options...
irwit Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 That skyshield is also addinga lot of points to an aready expensive and vulnerable target. Being honest I am not really seeing a great use for deepstriking, at least nothing reliable or useful. I would much prefer a 35 point drop pod. No mishap, garunteed turn 1 arrival, not be bunched up and still get to shoot. i think grey knights got shortchanged on the whole deepstrike idea. They shouldnt scatter and it would be a decent tactic. Even fluff wise I dont think its a great idea to have the elite of the elite die before even seeing a target. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285374-is-deep-striking-really-a-good-option/#findComment-3565519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 We weren't allowed Drop Pods, becuase we got Deep Strike on our Tacticals... Yet we didn't get the Deathwing or Blood Angel bonuses to Deep Striking. We got Mystics and Skulls... Also, Locator Beacons > Mystics. :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285374-is-deep-striking-really-a-good-option/#findComment-3565530 Share on other sites More sharing options...
irwit Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 So why are mystics not rated then? Is there something I am not seeing? they seem like cheapest and most reliable way to deepstrike? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285374-is-deep-striking-really-a-good-option/#findComment-3565553 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Easily killed, suck up a Henchmen Slot, Require you taking an Inquisitor, not available from C:I, no way to Scout/Infiltrate them to get them down-field anyway (well no you could, by taking an C:I Inquisitor with book...). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285374-is-deep-striking-really-a-good-option/#findComment-3565677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 That skyshield is also addinga lot of points to an aready expensive and vulnerable target. Pretty much. Plus, Aegis line does so much work it's kinda hard giving up your only Fortification slot for 'jank that might work'. Being honest I am not really seeing a great use for deepstriking, at least nothing reliable or useful. I would much prefer a 35 point drop pod. No mishap, garunteed turn 1 arrival, not be bunched up and still get to shoot. Believe me, every army that isn't Marines wants pods. GW accidentally give Tyranids pods once, but they've since corrected that with the latest codex. However, that doesn't mean Derpstrike is impossible without pods...it's just a lot more painful and restrictive. i think grey knights got shortchanged on the whole deepstrike idea. They shouldnt scatter and it would be a decent tactic. Even fluff wise I dont think its a great idea to have the elite of the elite die before even seeing a target. (shrug) GW rarely write the rules to match the background. They're almost completely seperate worlds. On the plus side, you guys all realise what Red Hunters mean right? BB Marines with locator beacon Scouts and locator beacon Drop Pods. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285374-is-deep-striking-really-a-good-option/#findComment-3566787 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Scouts get Locator Beacons now? Missed that! :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285374-is-deep-striking-really-a-good-option/#findComment-3566811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Fox Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Easily killed, suck up a Henchmen Slot, Require you taking an Inquisitor, not available from C:I, no way to Scout/Infiltrate them to get them down-field anyway (well no you could, by taking an C:I Inquisitor with book...). This is Incorrect. The mystics are available from Codex: Inquisition, as the chart in Codex: Inquisition (which specifies is IN ADDITION to the standard allies chart, thus it's own entity) lists Codex: Grey Knights as Battle Brothers with Codex: Inquisition. So use those mystics! Which by the by, come out of the bonus 3 elites from C: =][=, not the standard C: GK force org. Which make them an incredibly cheap option. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285374-is-deep-striking-really-a-good-option/#findComment-3567226 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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