Suckerpuch with Assault squad

[march10k]

Why the multimelta?  You gain nothing with the added range, since the rest are all meltas, and you only get a snap shot.  

[Dark_Master]

Why the multimelta? You gain nothing with the added range, since the rest are all meltas, and you only get a snap shot.

I ran out of combi/meltas :)

 

I'll put him at the back if he survives, he'll be a threat to armour in a wider area.

 

DM

[Master Avoghai]

Why the multimelta?  You gain nothing with the added range, since the rest are all meltas, and you only get a snap shot.  

An opponent never appreciate to have a MM in his line. The thing to do is to combat squad the vets so that you don't prevent the nine other to move.

Always nice to put pressure.

[march10k]

 

Why the multimelta?  You gain nothing with the added range, since the rest are all meltas, and you only get a snap shot.  

An opponent never appreciate to have a MM in his line. The thing to do is to combat squad the vets so that you don't prevent the nine other to move.

Always nice to put pressure.

 

 

Hah!  You're assuming that the vets will live to shoot a second time...If anything, the threat of the multimelta increases the pressure to erradicate the squad.  

[Master Avoghai]

 

 

 

Why the multimelta?  You gain nothing with the added range, since the rest are all meltas, and you only get a snap shot.  

 

An opponent never appreciate to have a MM in his line. The thing to do is to combat squad the vets so that you don't prevent the nine other to move.

Always nice to put pressure.

 

 

Hah!  You're assuming that the vets will live to shoot a second time...If anything, the threat of the multimelta increases the pressure to erradicate the squad.  

Exactly... Meaning less shoots on you approaching units. Like I've said, a poded squad should never sent in the enemy lines alone.

[Dark_Master]

Hah! You're assuming that the vets will live to shoot a second time...If anything, the threat of the multimelta increases the pressure to erradicate the squad.

That's the idea, as I said high points games with super heavies involved. Pod in, kill the super heavy, take as much fire as the squad can.

 

Let's my ravenwing get into position for DWA turn 2 and hopefully the pod will survive for an extra beacon too.

 

Well that's my theory anyway :)

 

DM

[Garath]

  The problem I have with veterans is the fact that they cost a zilllion points for what they do and they still die like tacticals.  If they kill a 600 pt model in a very large game- it will be worth it.

 

  ..ok, so the Assault squad idea is out...

 

  I was considering a dreadnought wiht 2 heavy flamers in a pod.  How does that look?  There are far less units with inteceptor that can kill the Dread before it fires it's flamers.

 

 Comments? 

[Master Avoghai]

The problem is not killing the dread (whereas it's even more likely with a quadritube)

The problem is killing the pod. If your opponent kills the pod before your shooting phase HE gets the 1st blood.

[Garath]

  Solution?

[Brother dean]

  Solution?

 

The problem is not killing the dread (whereas it's even more likely with a quadritube)

The problem is killing the pod. If your opponent kills the pod before your shooting phase HE gets the 1st blood.

 

 

  Solution?

Not to that particular scenario...

[Tanhausen]

Deploy where he doesn't have LOS with the intercepting unit to the incerteptee (yes...just made that up, sue me!).

 

We can only be intercepted if:

 

- They have LOS

- We are in range

 

Nevermind that with models being so big is improbable you can hide a full pod in a landing site that still proves useful for the cargo...

 

Doable? Yes

 

Likely? Not on my watch...

[Brother dean]

Deploy where he doesn't have LOS with the intercepting unit to the incerteptee (yes...just made that up, sue me!).

 

We can only be intercepted if:

 

- They have LOS

- We are in range

 

Nevermind that with models being so big is improbable you can hide a full pod in a landing site that still proves useful for the cargo...

 

Doable? Yes

 

Likely? Not on my watch...

Reads...  Hmm...  Interceptor: "At the end of the enemy's Movement phase"     At the end of my movement phase my guys are all out of the pod.  Does that mean that if my opponent targets the pod he cannot kill the troops (unless they get caught in the explosion radius of the pod) as it is now a separate unit?  

 

Does that mean he can target the squad instead and actually kill some out of it before we get our alpha strike in (guessing yes on that one.)

 

Let me guess, this one is in the FAQ for the main rulebook....  (toddles off to read more...)

[Master Avoghai]

 

Solution?

Accepting that a auto first blood unit does not exist?

 

Deploy where he doesn't have LOS with the intercepting unit to the incerteptee (yes...just made that up, sue me!).

 

Expecting to target a squad without being in LoS is really ambitious (not to say idyllic )

I don't see how to be in flamer or melta range without opening a LoS to a quadritube.

 

Does that mean that if my opponent targets the pod he cannot kill the troops (unless they get caught in the explosion radius of the pod) as it is now a separate unit?

Yup

[Tanhausen]

 

Deploy where he doesn't have LOS with the intercepting unit to the incerteptee (yes...just made that up, sue me!).

Expecting to target a squad without being in LoS is really ambitious (not to say idyllic )

I don't see how to be in flamer or melta range without opening a LoS to a quadritube.

 

Is there a solid solution to prevent the pod being "nuked" by the quadgun intercepting it? No

 

But we can try...I'm just giving ideas of stuff that has worked for me or that I've been cheated with and want to prevent it happening again ;)

 

If you play with the 2-3 storie buildings from GW (or equivalent), its not so hard to actually get BLOS at some point.

 

That DOES influence your landing (kudos to your opponent for forcing his will on your turn),

 

However, remember, when you land the cargo moves 6" (rolling in case of difficult terrain).

 

So you could actually land the pod in an obscured position (to the quad gun) and move the cargo (marines or dread) so close to the target that they actually screen you off (thinking of tanks here...)

 

BTW, a BS4 manning a quan gun would generally deal 1.2HP to an AV12 pod if I'm not mistaken....not so sure first blood IMO

 

IME, its much tougher to face the 27+ missile battlesuits targetting your RWBK...

[Brother dean]

Does that mean that if my opponent targets the pod he cannot kill the troops (unless they get caught in the explosion radius of the pod) as it is now a separate unit?

Yup

So that means if Interceptor kills the pod, the squad is already dis-embarked. That isnt how we've been playing it around here and makes the squad MUCH more survivable....

but now I have to straighten out everybody else.... sigh...

[Tanhausen]

Of course its disembarked...its at the END of the enemy movement phase and you are FORCED to disembark the pod...

 

Don't think you'll have much trouble showing that to normal people ;)

[Master Avoghai]

Is there a solid solution to prevent the pod being "nuked" by the quadgun intercepting it? No

 

But we can try...I'm just giving ideas of stuff that has worked for me or that I've been cheated with and want to prevent it happening again

 

I fundamentally agree with you.

 

The reason why I've pointed that out is because the whole feeling this thread leaves me is :

"What about finding a squad that works EVERY TIME?"

 

The sense of my remark was more to desmonstrate what you say : it may work sometimes, and sometimes you'll have to improvise.

[Garath]

 

Is there a solid solution to prevent the pod being "nuked" by the quadgun intercepting it? No

 

But we can try...I'm just giving ideas of stuff that has worked for me or that I've been cheated with and want to prevent it happening again

I fundamentally agree with you.

 

The reason why I've pointed that out is because the whole feeling this thread leaves me is :

"What about finding a squad that works EVERY TIME?"

 

The sense of my remark was more to desmonstrate what you say : it may work sometimes, and sometimes you'll have to improvise.

 

  Your feelings are true.  I do want to have a squad that works all the time.  By all the time, I mean every time that I didn't make a mistake deep striking it.  My other army is Orks- and comparing to DA, they play themselves...  The only thing you can depend on with Orks is that they cannot be depended on.

 

  Enough about Orks.

 

  I am looking for a pod unit that arrives on an isolated target and kills it in the first turn. That being said, the squad should be cheap(ish) and definitely kill it's target.

   The pod will not be alone in it's task. I can have a DW unit Deep striking nearby and a Whirlwind .

 

 

   I should have put my post into this context.

 

 

  Now then, do DA have such a unit?  Should I use SM allies instead? 

[Brother dean]

I go back to an old quote out of a Star Wars novel which I will paraphrase here,   "Pick which two you prefer:  You can have it Fast, Cheap or Reliable."  

 

I do not think there is a unit meeting all three requirements in any space marine list so then you must choose which is more important.  I am going with Fast and Reliable.  Currently I am debating a 10 man vet squad for an extra melta or to leave it at 9 man with a Precience Libby for twin linked Melta...

[SvenONE]

I just think there's a bit of tunnel vision here.  You seem really determined to get first blood from the same unit every time, I think what most people are trying to tell you is that no such unit exists, especially a cheap one.  

 

Here are some, but not limited to, variables that influence first blood:

• Opponent's army
• Opponent's deployment
• Your Deployment
• The rest of your army
• Who has first turn
• Cover
• Night fighting
• DICE (seizing, scatter, shots, wounds, saves, fnps, re-rolls etc.)

With variables like that I'd say you're hard pressed to name me any unit from any codex that is cheap and guaranteed FB scorer, especially without the aid of supporting fire from elsewhere.  Not to mention as others have said, it's not really prudent to build an army around you aiming to get first blood.  A lascannon dev squad can pop a vehicle on turn one, a plasma dev squad can dump enough pie plates to take a small squad out on turn one.  Belial and a full 10 man term squad with 2 heavy flamers can also do that (but that's a 600+ point unit).  A RWCS with a Grenade launcher/bolter banner + a RWAS can dish out plenty of wounds as well.  

 

The short version is that I don't think such a unit exists that you are looking for, especially one that is worth the cost/benefit.  A codex like DA that already has more expensive staple units as it is (bikes/ terminators) can't really afford to overspend on something that won't benefit it entirely.

[SvenONE]

I go back to an old quote out of a Star Wars novel which I will paraphrase here,   "Pick which two you prefer:  You can have it Fast, Cheap or Reliable."  

 

I do not think there is a unit meeting all three requirements in any space marine list so then you must choose which is more important.  I am going with Fast and Reliable.  Currently I am debating a 10 man vet squad for an extra melta or to leave it at 9 man with a Precience Libby for twin linked Melta...

 

Haha, that's an old addage beyond just the star wars universe! we have a similar one in my field "cheap work ain't good, good work ain't cheap"

[Garath]

I go back to an old quote out of a Star Wars novel which I will paraphrase here,   "Pick which two you prefer:  You can have it Fast, Cheap or Reliable."  

 

I do not think there is a unit meeting all three requirements in any space marine list so then you must choose which is more important.  I am going with Fast and Reliable.  Currently I am debating a 10 man vet squad for an extra melta or to leave it at 9 man with a Precience Libby for twin linked Melta...

Is the liby attached to the Vets? If they all drop together, then he can't Prescience them as Blessings cannot be cast by a model on the same turn it enters play.

 

@SvenOne

"Here are some, but not limited to, variables that influence first blood:

• Opponent's army
• Opponent's deployment
• Your Deployment
• The rest of your army
• Who has first turn
• Cover
• Night fighting
• DICE (seizing, scatter, shots, wounds, saves, fnps, re-rolls etc.)"

 

   True , but those factors come down to skill a very good chunk of the time.    What do you guys use ?  Surely you're not relying on that formentioned Lascanon ... 

 

  What I'm aming for here is to try to discover a "staple" unit to drop pod. It was Sternguard for SM in 5th ed.  There are usually units that are good at certain things  in each army .

 

  Do we have such a unit?  Vets look good but are really expensive.

[Brother dean]

I am still evolving my Co. Vets unit..  A wolf brother suggested that I combat squad the vets squad as soon as it hits which makes it a bit more survivable (wounds dont carry over between the two units) Allows me to take out a vehicle AND a squad and solves the libby question you point out.  

 

Squad is going to look like:

Melta, Melta, Combi Melta, Combi melta, (Power weapon?)

 

Storm bolter x4, (Power Weapon?)

 

Pod with a beacon for DWA support 2nd turn if squad(s) still survive.

 

It's going to be expensive tho...

[march10k]

combat-squadding on arrival makes it slightly more likely that 1-2 marines survive the turn of their arrival, but it also makes it incredibly unlikely that your opponent won't get first blood if your meltas whiff...and whiffs happen.  My knights smited a trygon for all of one lousy hit point playing against pbenner the other night!   The only thing that would make me combat-squad on arrival is if I was trying to melta two targets.

[SvenONE]

How can you ask for cheap when your previous go-to unit was a drop pod full of Sternguard, even before you buy them wargear they are hardly a cheap solution.

 

And no I'm not relying on my lascannon for first blood.  With supporting fire from multiple units I hope to score a first blood or weaken threats from my enemy to mitigate any future losses from their turn of shooting. 

 

Good luck finding your silver bullet unit, when you find something let us know.