Stormraven Gunship first turn

[Butters]

So the rules say that a flyer moving at combat speed or cruising may shoot up to 4 of its weapons.  With a Storm Raven could I shoot all 4 of its storm strike missiles?  In addition since it arrives from reserves it would (step 1) move onto the table, (2) then have a movement phase, (3) as well as shooting, so it could zoom on its first turn onto the table? 

 

Finally if it does not zoom the book says that it is treated as a Hovering Unit (Fast Skimmer).  Under Skimmer it says if it is fast it can move 18" so:

 

Zooming:

   Combat Speed  - 18" (no less) fires 4 weapons.

   Cruising Speed - 18" - 36" (no less than 18") 4 weapons

 

Hover:

   Combat Speed - 12" fires all weapons

   Flat Out -  18" all weapons

 

 

Just wondering if I have the rules correct on this before I make a fool of myself at a tournament. 

Thanks

[Seahawk]

Good thing you asked first! Here's what you need to read:

 

Page 81: Missiles.

 

Page 124: Arriving From Reserves.

 

Page 83: Shooting With Fast Vehicles.

 

 

To summarize:

- Only 2 missiles per turn, no more.

- Your move onto the table from Reserves is your movement phase.

- Fast Skimmers can:

--> Move Combat Speed (0.1"-6") and fire all weapons normally.

--> Move Cruising Speed (6.1"-12") and fire two weapons normally, the rest are Snap Shots.

--> Go Flat Out instead of shooting, and gain another 18" of movement during the shooting phase and Jink

 

.

[Disruptor_fe404]

Related: Does Power of the Machine Spirit allow a third missile?

 

My interpretation is no, since PotMS doesn't specifically say that it allows a third, and it's a permissive ruleset. But I can see a potential argument for yes.

[Butters]

First, I would argue that PotMS would allow you to fire a third missile.  Idea's?

 

Second, so when arriving from reserves it is placed anywhere in the deployment zone or with an edge touching the edge of the table? 

[DarkGuard]

Why would you argue that though?

 

The rules for missiles say only 2 can be fired per turn. The rules for PotMS say one more weapon can be fired than normal. The rules for fliers tend to let them fire 4 weapons a turn, but the rules for missiles still supersedes this. I don't believe PotMS supersedes the rules for missiles. You can fire 4 weapons a turn with a flier, 2 of which can be missiles. You can fire a 5th weapon as well, should you have one, but if you've fire 2 missiles, it cannot be on a missile as you've used your 2 missiles for the turn.

[uldrick]

isn't the norm is that codex rules overwrite BRB rules?

the restriction of 2 missiles per turn is from the BRB and the PoTMS rule come from the codex, hence allowing it to bypass the normal limit of 2 missiles, right?

[Disruptor_fe404]

Second, so when arriving from reserves it is placed anywhere in the deployment zone or with an edge touching the edge of the table? 

 

Treat the table edge of your deployment zone as 0" and measure the move from there.

[Seahawk]

The problem is that PotMS is not in the codex. ;)

 

I find quoting the rules helps for debates...usually.

 

BRB, p.40: "...the vehicle can fire one more weapon at its full Ballistic Skill than normally permitted."

BRB, p.81: "A maximum of two missiles can be fired per Shooting phase, and they count towards the number of weapons fired that turn."

 

Have at it!

[uldrick]

seems like i am still in the 4 fth edition there, when the PoTMS was still in the codex.


now i see the problem

[Butters]

well if the rule says,  p.81: "A maximum of two missiles can be fired per Shooting phase, and they count towards the number of weapons fired that turn" , then I would assume that 2 missiles fired together is 1 weapon.  Otherwise it would say "...and they EACH count SEPARATELY towards the number of weapons...."

 

And on the movement.  When you arrive via reserves you do not get to move so it comes in straight on the edge of the table. Right?

[Morollan]

well if the rule says,  p.81: "A maximum of two missiles can be fired per Shooting phase, and they count towards the number of weapons fired that turn" , then I would assume that 2 missiles fired together is 1 weapon.  Otherwise it would say "...and they EACH count SEPARATELY towards the number of weapons...."

 

That's an...unusual version of English that's I've not encountered before.

[Seahawk]

It's also wrong. Every one shot weapon counts as a single weapon; otherwise, a weapon destroyed result on it would destroy all the missiles. ;)

[Butters]

So we're going with each missile is separate? However because it says only two missiles may be fired each turn your still limited to just two even with PotMS?

[Seahawk]

Yep.

[Ishagu]

Naaah POTMS allows you to fire an additional weapon than would normally be permitted. I've used it to fire 3 missiles a turn since the first day I fielded the Raven.

 

Edit: no one has ever argued this in at least two dozen games!

[Morollan]

Naaah POTMS allows you to fire an additional weapon than would normally be permitted. I've used it to fire 3 missiles a turn since the first day I fielded the Raven.

 

Edit: no one has ever argued this in at least two dozen games!

 

Just because you've been doing it that way doesn't mean it's the right way. Nothing in PotmS overrides the restriction on the number of missiles you can fire in a turn.

[Seahawk]

Exactly, you get to shoot one more weapon, but not one more missile.

[Butters]

I agree.  Though it doesnt help the fact on the first turn my storn raven was wrecked by a quad cannon 3 of the 4 shots hit and not only penetrated but ALL roled immobilizing hits.  what LUCK!!

[Quixus]

Exactly, you get to shoot one more weapon, but not one more missile.

Isn't a missile a weapon? PotMS allows the use of one more weapon of any type, this should include missiles.

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

But that argument would also imply that by not moving you could fire off a lot more than 2 missiles. A stationary vehicle can fire all its weapons, but would still be limited to 2 missiles.