Marshal Rohr Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Alright, so the nomenclature amongst the various 'military' Legions is pretty straight forward, with the names varying, but meaning similar things (Orders, Battalions, Companies, Centuria,etc). What about the legions who don't have something similar to western models of organization like the Space Wolves and White Scars? The Luna Wolves had companies, but by Isstvan V, that meant little and they were pretty much just Warbands. Would the Space Wolves use a battalion and company structure within their Great Companies? Would you find a V Tactical Centuria in the Space Wolves or White Scars? Anybody who has read Scars care to lend some aid? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285601-non-military-legion-organization/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackoption Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 All of the legions started with the basic layout from Betrayal. As for the specifics for the scars or the wolves... i am doubting we will find more than hints in the Black Library books, as they rarely go and explain the structure of any given legion. For the wolves, we know they were set at 13 companies... but how big those companies were depends on how large the legion as a whole is. I have no clue how the scars modified the original tactical organizations. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285601-non-military-legion-organization/#findComment-3568870 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Well, from what we've seen of the White Scars in Scars, it seems to go Legion to Horde(Yes, Horde;commanded by nyon-khans) to Brotherhood(commanded by KHAAAAAAN!;sorry). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285601-non-military-legion-organization/#findComment-3568878 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMagnus Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I think of the Space wolves as this way: 13 Grand Companys (the commander wolf lord I always call a "Jarl", which is a skandinavian lord/king), and then I think their organization is the same as in the 41st millenium, with the elites being the wolf guard, or as I like to call them "Housecarls - Huskarle" and the Centurions would be the WG battle leaders or "Thanes". Thats the way I see it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285601-non-military-legion-organization/#findComment-3568879 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumah Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Just to nitpick: it's noyan-Khans. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285601-non-military-legion-organization/#findComment-3568884 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Just to nitpick: it's noyan-Khans. See? Yet more aid Marshal. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285601-non-military-legion-organization/#findComment-3568895 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 According to the org. chart in Betrayal, Brotherhoods were another name for a Company, which I suppose might make Hordes Chapters, and Noyan-Khans Chapter Masters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285601-non-military-legion-organization/#findComment-3568907 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 So chieftain wouldn't apply in either of these cases? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285601-non-military-legion-organization/#findComment-3568923 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 So chieftain wouldn't apply in either of these cases?Well, in Scars, the Brotherhood of the Storm had five hundred Astartes and it wouldnt be the first time a company organization was broken down into smaller organizations. Also, Betrayal isn't entirely matching up with Scars as it says a Lord Commander would be the Khan. And Five Hundred Astartes were typically a "battlaion" according to Betrayal. So honestly, what we could do(since apparently we do have freedom to move around) is Horde=Chapter; Noyan-Khan=Lord Command Brotherhood=Battalion; Khan=Battalion Commander ?=Company; Chieftan=Centurion/Captain/Whatever Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285601-non-military-legion-organization/#findComment-3568940 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durfast Spiritwolf Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 For Scars, you could just go with the medieval Mongol decimal system with units of 10 (arban), 100 (yaghun), 1,000 (minghan) and 10,000 (tumen). A Noyan-Khan would normally command the latter, but they were also known to command a minghan. This system was quite common across steppe armies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285601-non-military-legion-organization/#findComment-3568951 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 Durfast, is the word in the parentheses a rank or the unit name for the numeration? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285601-non-military-legion-organization/#findComment-3568962 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I think its a unit designation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285601-non-military-legion-organization/#findComment-3568963 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 So chieftain wouldn't apply in either of these cases? Chieftain are Iron Hands. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285601-non-military-legion-organization/#findComment-3568999 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 So chieftain wouldn't apply in either of these cases?Chieftain are Iron Hands. But nothing says they have to specifically be Iron Hands. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285601-non-military-legion-organization/#findComment-3569006 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Well, no, I am not saying that. Just pointing it out if he saw Chieftains on the chart and thought it might apply to the Scars or Wolves. There may be overlap, common use, but we know that it is an Iron Hands designation, in command of the Clans. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285601-non-military-legion-organization/#findComment-3569012 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I thoughy chieftan was a temporary rank sometimes used by the SoH. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285601-non-military-legion-organization/#findComment-3569019 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 It is that was well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285601-non-military-legion-organization/#findComment-3569020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spu00sed Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 When you said non military organisation, I thought you meant things like the cooks and cleaners. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285601-non-military-legion-organization/#findComment-3569031 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Ah, I had forgotten that. Then yes, Chieftains are used in more than one Legion. Not sure which one the org. chart was referencing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285601-non-military-legion-organization/#findComment-3569037 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 I would assume support personnel in the legions range from slaves to fully integrated military roles. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285601-non-military-legion-organization/#findComment-3569059 Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackoption Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Chieftain is one of the more prominent squad leaders in the SoH. Not quite a line commander, but lead specialized or renowned squads. I didn't realize chieftains were also in the Iron Hands... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285601-non-military-legion-organization/#findComment-3569396 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Chieftans are clan commanders in the Iron Hands. Think the Lord Commanders in te Emperor's Children. According to Betrayal, in the SoH, Chieftan is an honorary rank given to a sergeant who is put in charge of warband, which is an ad hoc formation of squads, either within a company, or made up of detachments from several companies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285601-non-military-legion-organization/#findComment-3569405 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 There's also the possibility of 'Honourary' titles existing, which can give us some fun fluff to play with. In a few of my Iron Warriors stories, I made mention of the CVIII Azvaran, a title I plucked from ancient Persian history, from a mercenary group that was renown for their blade work. I liked the title, I liked the concept, I liked applying it to a IX Legion Void Assault Group, so I ran with it. I'm always down with adding a realistic edge to everything 30k, but there's a point where some things should just remain fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285601-non-military-legion-organization/#findComment-3569484 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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