Please crush my dreams

[jjfelber]

I had a thought the other night when thinking about enemy flyers. This is how it went.. 

I need to be able to deal with enemy flyers.

What do good players do?
Well, I saw lots of defense lines with a Quad Gun.  *Looks at fortifications*
Oooo, for 25 pts more can take a bastion, but no one does this. Must be crappy.
However, It does have better line of sight.
I could put a unit of Long fangs up there, that sounds good. The leader can shoot the gun.
I also put a rune priest in that unit. Wait, HE can shoot the gun! With chooser of the slain he has a BS5. And he can split-fire his Quad gun (leader alive) at a different target than the Long Fangs.
But, then he can't use living lightning. But he could use Storm Caller or Tempest's Wrath!
Each turn he uses storm caller or tempest's wrath, Either messing with all enemy skimmers and flyers! Or giving the unit an even better cover save and even giving the armor 14 building a cover save.


Ok, internet, here is where I need you. Destroy my dreams. Tear my beautiful plans apart before I make the mistake of entering the battlefield with this. Patronize my inferior knowledge of the rules.

[Martok]

It works. Although you should consider using the rulebook psychic powers to run divination. Rerolling that BS5 and possibly getting the ignores cover power for even more awesome.

[Naminé]

I use the bastion all the time.  Despite having extremely cheap AV14, ability to assault from inside, a high vantage point, lots of firing points, self firing heavy bolters and a 20 model capacity for only 25 points more... you also can't just walk around the other side to deny cover, and its better against flamers too :p

[Schertenleib]

I think the main reason you see more defense lines than bastions is that the model is cheaper cash-wise.

[Fytharin]

I really like the idea of using a bastion now when before reading this, I hadn't even considered it because you're right in that everyone uses aegis lines. For 25 points more that sounds like a great place for your long fangs to keep them out of harm. My only thing is whether it's worth it to sacrafice the priests firing power for a purely defensive role especially when we have such great priests and offensive abilities to begin with. I have not really looked into codex psyker abilities all that seriously but considering how many people keep bringing them up I may need to at this point....Yes to the bastion, yes to the long fangs, not so sure about the priest but it's enough to where I want to research it myself lol

[hendrik]

in addition, you will also need to buy the aegis defence line if you want the quad gun... the bastion only comes with the icarus lascannon...

[ORKILL]

I use the Sky Shield and have had pretty good luck with it. The defense line is no defense against Helldrakes or cover ignoring Tau.

[MustangTC]

None of our spells improve cover saves, one can grant a 5+ though. If only it gave shrouded.

[Rift Blade]

I use the Bastion a fair bit along the lines you said. However I put a 5 man GH pack inside to A)protect against assaults on my LF's/Bastion-B)better BS for the HB's-C)possibly scoring an objective in my DZ. Instead of the RP, I give the LF's a WGPL. I find it works really well giving the LF's a better field of fire, a cover save against most incoming fire & giving us AA. Just a little note---when you assemble the Bastion, you DON'T have to put a HB on each side. You CAN put more then one on a side. You are just only allowed 4 HB's. Just my 2 cents.

[jjfelber]

Ok, this makes me feel like I had an ok idea. Im use to coming up with a "great" plan and having it fall apart in front of me. So couple more questions.

1. RP or WGPL?   I have never run the Divination Lore. How much do people like it?     Does Tempest's Wrath effect flyers?   Also, How important is ignore cover? If the gun doesnt AP the enemy wont they just take the 3+ Sv?  OR is that more for vehicals that are Obscured?   @MustangTC Thanks for the update on Storm Caller.

2. The fire Points, Can I put them all on one or two sides also? If a model is firing the HBs to avoid the BS2 can that model also shoot out of a fire point?

3. I read somewhere 2 models can fire out of 1 fire point, is that true? If so is it also true for rhinos? So 4 models can shoot out of a rhino?

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

I love divination on my long fangs. The best part is that if you get a rp with chooser and divination you can buff the squad in the movement phase and then still shoot with the quad gun in the shooting phase.

[d@n]

I prefer to use the wolf priest with saga of the hunter. It's not as powerful, but it is more reliable. The preferred enemy only allows you too re roll ones against one unit type but you don't have to worry about perils of the warp or not passing Pyskic tests. the increased cover save and fearless means your long fangs stick around a lot longer plus it doesn't hurt having a wolf priest invade y our assaulted

[DanPesci]

quick question...if you are on a bastion..you still get no cover against flamers etc yes? (helldrakes etc)

[DanPesci]

I prefer to use the wolf priest with saga of the hunter. It's not as powerful, but it is more reliable. The preferred enemy only allows you too re roll ones against one unit type but you don't have to worry about perils of the warp or not passing Pyskic tests. the increased cover save and fearless means your long fangs stick around a lot longer plus it doesn't hurt having a wolf priest invade y our assaulted

 

often thought about this, however for me, depends on the long fangs...for say a 5xML unit, id say the rune priest is a stronger option, as they may be shooting at a variety of targets. It also means that if they are snap firing at flyers, then they are rerolling 1-5s, not just 1s. 

 

If however, the unit was say 5xHB, then pref enemy (infantry) is probably a better choice.

 

Saying that, i think SotH is much better used outflanking plasma death squads ;) (but thats just how i like to roll)

[d@n]

It's just my preference. The rune priest is more powerful but It's very easy to kill a couple of long fangs and have them run off the board or the rune priest to fail is test or peril himself to death, that's not going to happen with a wolf priest he's going to be firing that quad gun or Icarus laser cannon, like a boss until he has lost all his wounds and with stealth and an inv save it's going to take a lot to kill him. I like out flanking him too but against some army's you need to run a gun line. The truth is, putting a 100 odd point character into a 140 odd point unit isn't that great. An idea, you may aswell just take another long fang pack, I just like to do it if I come up against an army that I need to play a gun line against

[DanPesci]

all valid points :)

 

however, one thing i forgot..which is why i prefer to have my rune priest in the backline...is that the rune priest can cast prescience (and most other divi powers) on any unit within 12", which can be a real bugger for an opponent (ahhh fine, youve hidden LOS from THAT long fang squad, great, ill just cast prescience on THIS one instead :)

 

usually the way id setup my backfield is to have 2 squds of long fangs and a squad of grey hunters objective sitting, with a rune priest within prescience range of at least 2, if not all of them.

 

I hadnt thought about the stealth that SotH give s you though to be fair, very handy in cover! Think ive pretty much always forgotten that he gets that when outflanking - probs cos im too busy laughing at the hilarity or pumping 8+ plasma shots into some unfortunate unit :)

[wulfgar hammerfist]

How about an allied IG vet squad with 3 plasmaguns and an autocannon with an attached commissar lord to shoot the quad gun in a bastion? The extra bubbas can man the HBs, the plasmas give a nice 24" threat range to stuff trying to DS near to it and the commissar makes them fearless. 

[d@n]

How about an allied IG vet squad with 3 plasmaguns and an autocannon with an attached commissar lord to shoot the quad gun in a bastion? The extra bubbas can man the HBs, the plasmas give a nice 24" threat range to stuff trying to DS near to it and the commissar makes them fearless. 

if we are going to talk about allies then we may aswell we'll stop at imperial fist devastators, bs5 icaras laser cannon tank hunting missile launchers/ plasma/laser cannons and bolter drill for the bastions heavy bolters but then if your taking allied space marines. You just take khan with grav bikers and your back to long fangs in the bastion

[Naminé]

quick question...if you are on a bastion..you still get no cover against flamers etc yes? (helldrakes etc)

Actually a baleflamer cannot even hit those on top under the current rules.

Only skimmers and jetbikes and things can lay flame template upon second floor height. They never added flyers to that list (Despite it making sense that they'd be able to, they still can't hit you!)

Bear in mind though they could still vector strike you, and still flamer inside the bastion itself for d6 hits.

[Grimtooth]

 

quick question...if you are on a bastion..you still get no cover against flamers etc yes? (helldrakes etc)

Actually a baleflamer cannot even hit those on top under the current rules.

Only skimmers and jetbikes and things can lay flame template upon second floor height. They never added flyers to that list (Despite it making sense that they'd be able to, they still can't hit you!)

Bear in mind though they could still vector strike you, and still flamer inside the bastion itself for d6 hits.

From a fluff perspective, I can see why they cannot.  As it is gamewise, I am glad that they need to go into skimmer mode to flame anything above ground level as it is game balancing.

[thebymster]

 

 

I prefer to use the wolf priest with saga of the hunter. It's not as powerful, but it is more reliable. The preferred enemy only allows you too re roll ones against one unit type but you don't have to worry about perils of the warp or not passing Pyskic tests. the increased cover save and fearless means your long fangs stick around a lot longer plus it doesn't hurt having a wolf priest invade y our assaulted

 

Saying that, i think SotH is much better used outflanking plasma death squads ;) (but thats just how i like to roll)

I've been too much of a fenris purist for too long. Where do you get "plasma death squads" from? Is this a codex marine ally?

 

I live in the back woods. Going to my first tourni in few weeks, can't settle on a 1500 list - for ascendency of tau mostly, but all comers...

[thebymster]

Oh, and another thing....

Vs tau it don't matter how much cover you got, it's going to be ignored! So is there any wisdom in dotting WG Termis amongst LF packs with ss's to take the knocks?

[d@n]

 

 

 

I prefer to use the wolf priest with saga of the hunter. It's not as powerful, but it is more reliable. The preferred enemy only allows you too re roll ones against one unit type but you don't have to worry about perils of the warp or not passing Pyskic tests. the increased cover save and fearless means your long fangs stick around a lot longer plus it doesn't hurt having a wolf priest invade y our assaulted

Saying that, i think SotH is much better used outflanking plasma death squads ;) (but thats just how i like to roll)

I've been too much of a fenris purist for too long. Where do you get "plasma death squads" from? Is this a codex marine ally?

I live in the back woods. Going to my first tourni in few weeks, can't settle on a 1500 list - for ascendency of tau mostly, but all comers...

I think he is referring to out outflanking, tricked up combi plasma wolf guard or you can take 2 plasma guns, a plasma pistol in a grey hunter pack and attached wolf guard with combi plasma and the priest, himself can take either a plasma pistol or combi plasma, so depending on range and if you go for combi or pistols, you looking at 5-9 plasma shots.

[Grimtooth]

For me SotH wolf priest is a no brainer.

 

In all likelihood, you will get Line Breaker and First Blood right away. I have even gotten Slay the Warlord as well as both of the above the turn they came on with a careless opponent. When things like that happen, tactics go out the window and mission is basically forgotten at opponent goes into panic mode to make up the points.

[Wulfebane]

Seems I'm the only one enjoying Stronghold Assault. Big fan of Firestorm Redoubt. Toss my LFs inside where they can't be targetted from range, add a battle cannon and void shield for cheap, then sit back and let those skimmers/flyers come.