Small viable DG list - where to start?

[infyrana]

The lure was too much... so here it is, the desire for a 30k DG force !

I would therefore be very grateful if the 30k community here could help me come up with a small fluffy and fun force around 1k points, with suggestions for expansion to 1.5k and 2k lists please. Remember, this isn't for competition, but for a fun addition to my collection.

Here are a few things that I'd like to theme it around if at all possible.

• MkIII armoured marines with Contemptors as the basic starting point (already own a DG Contemptor with dual kheres and havoc launcher).
• Dodgy weaponry - Rad missiles, Chem flamers, Phosphex etc.
• Unit of Destroyers with added Moritat - prefer the use of Jump Packs and Missile Launchers for Rad Missiles (this is probably the most offensive unit to a lot of people, and will cause the list to be a bit skewed for performance and points).
• Tacticals, Heavy Tacticals, another Contemptor, and maybe the odd Sicaran (rule of cool on this one) or Spartan (far more fluffy) if using Termies.
• Prefer to avoid the use of any other vehicle like bikes, planes, other tanks, even the vindi etc.

I know little about the rules yet to piece together my own optimal list, so I would have just started with a Praetor, 20 tacticals and a contemptor. Going on to fit in a Moritat and Destroyers plus some heavy tacticals, then become stumped

[GhostMalone]

Check out my death guard list it has the right of war and I think that's what you want

[infyrana]

Aye, I've been keeping an eye on your thread there :)  You kinda started for a 2k list and ended up with a 4k list lol.  You have a lot of added items in your list that I'm way far off looking into at this time for such a small list, but it's got me thinking no doubt especially with the Grave Wardens and Typhon - lacks Destroyers though!

 

What do you rely on most for your anti-armour apart from your melta Tactical Support squad?

[GhostMalone]

Ahh but grave wardens = über destroyers ;)

[Moonstalker]

Well, here's a starting point that I think hits on what what you wanted.

 

Centurion

-Artificer Armor, Refractor Field, Combiflamer with chem munitions, Deathshroud Powerscythe, Meltabomb

105

 

Contemptor-Mortis

-Dual Kheres, Havoc Launcher

195

 

Legion Tactical Squad

-14 Members, Legion Vexilla, Sergeant with Power Weapon and Meltabomb

215

 

Legion Tactical Squad

-10 Members, Legion Vexilla, Sergeant with Power Weapon and Meltabomb

175

 

Legion Tactical Support Squad

-5 Members, 4 Flamers with chem munitions

100

 

Legion Heavy Support Squad

-5 Members, 5 Missile Launchers

160

 

This list is only 950 points, so there's room for an ADL, or maybe a Rhino and some more wargear, or just more wargear overall to hit 1k.  If you drop some wargear off the sergeants, you could afford to upgrade the Centurion to a Siege Breaker and give him some Phosphex.  If you drop the Support Squad you could get some more armor, like the Sicaran you mentioned.  The Moritat + Destroyers will probably have to wait for 1500 points, or maybe higher.

[GhostMalone]

It's a good start brother

[infyrana]

kitwulfen, aye that list certainly kick starts a few ideas thank you. Interesting idea on the Siege Breaker, not that I plan on fielding medusa's, but the phosphex and tank hunter stuff looks nice.

I like the idea of the Flamer Tactical Support squad for the chems', and the Heavy ML squad certainly fits both fluff and practicality. Are these squads that you would keep for a 2k list and increase their sizes, or would you simply ditch them for better options / weaponry?

How does the 5x man Heavy ML squad compare in anti-AV to the Sicaran with LC sponsons? I assumed you meant dropping the flamer squad to fit it in at this point level, but
just considering the options

So using the list you have kindly provided as a starting point, where could I expand next please? I would be considering increasing squads to 20x man, adding the destroyers and moritat (without jp's if I go Siege Breaker), adding a single Sicaran and either Deathshroud or Grave Wardens with a Spartan. What do you think I might then be missing in terms of rounding out my shooting and objective taking please?

[Moonstalker]

The Sicaran has some pretty crazy damage output, it will pretty much outdo the ML troops in almost all areas.  My thought with them, though, was that if you decided to go for the DG RoW at a higher points level you'd want some heavy weapon guys to fill out your troops choices/hold objectives in the back field.  The ML troops should be enough anti-tank at 1k points, I didn't emphasize anti-AV14 in this list since it's highly unlikely you'll see a Land Raider this low.  If you do, there's some meltabombs scattered about so you can try and handle it anyway.  The ML just offer some versatile long-range firepower that's also pretty cheap, and boots on the ground is always fluffy for DG.

 

I personally wouldn't add the Siege Breaker upgrade to the Centurion at this points level, or any of the other consul options.  He's pretty expensive with all that fancy wargear (I tried to make him very DG-y without overspending on HQ).  I really like the Master of Signal for consuls, more than the Siege Breaker, but the latter and his phosphex toys is much more Death Guard-y.  The Support Squad with chem-flamers is more fluff than substance, IMO.  Without a transport, they're not getting in range of anything all that quick.  I suppose they are more of a counter-assault element than anything else, inflicting wall-of-flame hits on anything that decides to charge you.  Maybe I am shortchanging them and their potential effectiveness - I have never favored flamers in my own playstyle.  With the points you have leftover in this 1k point list, you could buy them a Rhino to get them into position if you want.

 

As you expand towards higher point levels, you can fill up the troops choices till they're 20 man, add some Apothecaries for FNP, the Centurion could be promoted to a Praetor (with similar wargear) to get you the Reaping Rite of War (if you want to go that way).  Getting those Tactical Squads beefed out will only take up 150-250 points total, so that leaves you another 250 before 1500 that I think you should use for additional firepower - that could be the Sicaran, another Contemptor, some Rapier laser destroyers, whatever flavor of heavy weapons you favor.  So long as it can kill AV14, at least.  If you forgo the apothecaries, then perhaps you can fit in the moritat + destroyers at 1500, along with the marines to fill out your tac squads and a bit of anti-tank.  Perhaps at 2k you drop the support squad with flamers, add the spartan and a squad of terminators.

 

If you want to forgo the flamer squad entirely, you could take the Moritat at 1k with jump pack, two plasma pistols, and maybe a couple other pieces of wargear, and then you could definitely add marines, anti-tank, and a destroyer squad to go with the Moritat when you expand to 1500.  With first turn + scout move + jump pack movement, you can almost guarantee that you're in range of something turn 1 that he can Chain Fire to death.  Or he can use his mobility to stay hidden behind the rest of your army, and then swing out when something gets close to you and punish it.  Either way, he'll be quite fragile, and probably dead the turn after he chain fires.

[GhostMalone]

How about typhon and master of signal, that's 2 template ordinance weapons!

[infyrana]

Typhon is a very nice model indeed, at 2k points I'd definitely consider him with a deathshroud bodyguard and spartan - but that's a long way off for me just yet.

kit, now I can see where your list thinking has come about. I agree regarding the flamers, definitely need a transport or they might suffer a lack of activity, with a few magnets I can see these models being something I could try out or reintegrate them into a tact squad easily enough. I have some old school rhinos from 2nd/3rd ed days, are these suitable for 30k lists without using FW parts? (I had planned to use four of them for my 40k DG army that I'm back to working on)

I've been checking out your luna wolves thread, interesting stuff - you're having the same debate regarding the sicaran etc

Spanner in the works moment - Are the 2x 20 man tactical squads pretty much a staple for DG in most lists, or can the RoW Reaping provide something different, keeping say just 1x 20 man tactical, and sporting more heavy support squads - this might be points heavy and lower boots on the ground, but can it work?

So DG tacticals in MkIII armour - phobos bolters or something different ?

[GhostMalone]

I like the umbra pattern bolters personally, with the right of war you don't need your 20 man tac squads you can bulk out with heavy supports like grave warden heavy flamer squads etc. and hold objectives the 20 man tacs may not get in without a spartan but 10 man HS with a rhino can rush and hold

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

Praetor with death guard in a Spartan aren't hard to fit in a 1.5 list and Typhon is even cheaper!

[Moonstalker]

Typhon is a very nice model indeed, at 2k points I'd definitely consider him with a deathshroud bodyguard and spartan - but that's a long way off for me just yet.

kit, now I can see where your list thinking has come about. I agree regarding the flamers, definitely need a transport or they might suffer a lack of activity, with a few magnets I can see these models being something I could try out or reintegrate them into a tact squad easily enough. I have some old school rhinos from 2nd/3rd ed days, are these suitable for 30k lists without using FW parts? (I had planned to use four of them for my 40k DG army that I'm back to working on)

I've been checking out your luna wolves thread, interesting stuff - you're having the same debate regarding the sicaran etc

Spanner in the works moment - Are the 2x 20 man tactical squads pretty much a staple for DG in most lists, or can the RoW Reaping provide something different, keeping say just 1x 20 man tactical, and sporting more heavy support squads - this might be points heavy and lower boots on the ground, but can it work?

So DG tacticals in MkIII armour - phobos bolters or something different ?

The Reaping allows you to take Veteran Tacticals and Heavy Support squads as non-Compulsory troops choices, so you'll still need some tacticals/breachers/assault squads to fill in the compulsory bit. If you decide to go Pride of the Legion instead, then you can take Terminators and Veteran Tacticals as both compulsory and non-compulsory troops. So you could do two 10 man tactical squads and then some heavy support squads to fill out the rest of your troops if you wanted, but a single 20 man squad would not fill out your requirements.

In my personal view of the heresy, big blocks of troops suit the Death Guard's infantry-heavy tactics well - but the Legions were so large that anything could be justified, fluff-wise. Your force could represent a special fast task force with lots of rhinos, jetbikes, and skimmers, or maybe you have small squads due to attrition and combat losses. Of the three core troops - tacticals, breachers, and assault - I prefer tacticals for their firepower and lower cost, then breachers for their survivability and special weapon options, and lastly assault. I just plain think assault are overcosted, but having built-in mobility gives them a very distinct advantage. Any number or combination of these troops could be reasonable in your army, I wouldn't want to try and convince you that 2x20 tacticals is the staple choice.

Those Rhinos you've got would work just fine. They'll be smaller than the new plastic kits (or the plastic/resin Deimos kits that FW puts out), but they're official GW and they have the original styling that inspired the Deimos-pattern kits.

I was planning on MkIII armor and Phobos bolters for my army, but almost any combination or mix could be justified. Use whatever you think looks the best.