Kilofix Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Are Storm Troopers any good, assuming no Valk? Seems like they would be like an alternative to Plasma vs MEQ. But, maybe I'm missing something. Thanks for the insight. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285671-are-storm-troopers-any-good/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beachymike123 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 storm troopers are a bit of a mixed bag, it really depends on the opponent. however, i run mine as a 5 man squad with 2 GLs and they seem to do me ok, although they do better when they deep strike (no idea why ). their AP3 lasguns are a good little humbler against PA armies, but the low strength is a slight drawback. some people love em and some won't give them the time of day. courses for horses really. for their points cost you have a unit that can withstand bolter fire (well, have a save against it anyway), and has the equivalent to ubergrit with ap3 weaponry. they can also receive orders, and have a selection of special operations for the task at hand, and this is before they get any upgrades. i myself use them as they've usually made their points back and are great at holding more elite units back either by firing or going into melee depending on the situation. just my 2p on the subject, hope it helps. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285671-are-storm-troopers-any-good/#findComment-3570322 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultradad74 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Rumor has it they're getting a freshening up for the next release. I'll pass the salt, of course. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285671-are-storm-troopers-any-good/#findComment-3570333 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RolandTHTG Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I like 'em. Run 5 man, 2 meltas and a plasmapistol, deepstrike in for tank hunting. The reroll doctrine really makes them accurate. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285671-are-storm-troopers-any-good/#findComment-3570390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I've taken them as 5 with two meltas to murder a tank and as 10 with two plasmas and a plasma pistol, for reinforcing Al'rahem (which I often take.) Both have served me well. Just remember, they're still guardsmen and aren't going to go 1 on 1 with a space marines (let alone an elite space marine.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285671-are-storm-troopers-any-good/#findComment-3570403 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 Question - if I'm going to upgrade them with specials, should I just not use Vets with 3 specials instead? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285671-are-storm-troopers-any-good/#findComment-3570441 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Stormies are sadly let down by their points cost, otherwise they've got some nice rules and look cool. As others have said the best way to run them is generally to keep them cheaper - a small unit with a couple of special weapons Deep Striking in can cause a disproportionate effect on your opponent's plans. A couple of Plasma is the obvious choice as it gives them some extra AT punch and complements the Hotshot's AP3 when dealing with heavy infantry. So if you're thinking about the special weapons then yes, Veterans are probably better - but if you want their special forces rules then a small squad can work nicely. They're even fairly handy in assault too. For me it's mostly about how cool they are and their unique abilities for a Guard unit. It depends on your army somewhat though, as they will need an army that can use/work with their role in order to be worth it. If we got new models for them I'd be very pleased, but not as much as I'd be to see a points drop! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285671-are-storm-troopers-any-good/#findComment-3570540 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I always bring Storm Troopers and they've never failed me. I usually deep strike a 5-man squad with two meltaguns. They are good at killing tanks and great at disrupting the enemy's plans. I also bring the 10-man with 2 plasma version. Stormies must be used cautiously but can be very effective. 'Course now I run DKoK Assault Brigade with Grenadiers who are even better (and only 75% of the points). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285671-are-storm-troopers-any-good/#findComment-3570686 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypherthefallenangel Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I personally won't use them. They are horribly over priced. 21pts for the sarge and 16pts for the troopers! wwwwhhhaaattt?!?! A tactical marine is only 14pts and a vet marine is 18pts. Both are vastly superior to stormtroopers. Example a DA tactical marine gets +1WS, +1S, +1T, +1I, ATSKNF, scoring, power armor, and Stubborn for -2pts ea. Stormtroopers need a serious overhaul to be point efficient. Hopefully in the new codex they will fix them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285671-are-storm-troopers-any-good/#findComment-3570845 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sviar Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 First off, you have gotten some great advices above. On 1/16/2014 at 5:37 AM, Kilofix said: Question - if I'm going to upgrade them with specials, should I just not use Vets with 3 specials instead? You need to ask yourself what it is you want them to do. If your planning to run with an ally, Sternguard with combi-melta in a DP survives much longer alone behind enemy lines. If your running a pure Guard list, Storm Troopers could be a good option, if you're planning to annoy your opponent and make him/her divert some of his/her forces to clear the threat. If you were planning to put them in a Chimera I'd say that you maybe should consider a Vet squad with Carapace armour. I'm going to leave you with a tip: If you have the models just play them in a few games, and should they prove to be a fun unit to play even though they don't achieve much, keep them on tha table. The members at my LGC adviced me not to invest in a Special Weapons Squad with three Demolition charges when they heard what I was doing. I listened to what they had to say and then continued to build my demo squad. Because they sounded like a fun unit to play, and they has that enjoyable suprise factor for me. Just like my Guardsman Marbo he also have that suprise factor, because this could be the game he actually hits something with his demo. Up to this date he has not killed a single model, but he will always be on the table when I field Guards because of the suprise factor and I get to place him anywhere on the table. And it's always nice to give your opponent a little horror moment by placing him near a key model(s). In other words they are fun to field and makes every game a little more enjoyable. Also, I play in a quite friendly atmosphere which always helps. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285671-are-storm-troopers-any-good/#findComment-3571170 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Good post Sviar, I question anyone not taking a unit because they want to - surely that's the only thing that matters, even if you want to take it because it's good! Listening to your opponents is a good idea as they know better than you how good your unit is, :P Though somewhat haphazard at times, I give advice to some and they think I'm scheming to try and get them to take a bad unit Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285671-are-storm-troopers-any-good/#findComment-3571421 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted January 18, 2014 Author Share Posted January 18, 2014 Thanks all. After some skirmishing myself, I found what pretty much everyone (Sviar / others) has said. Summarized as follows: 1. ST's main value is in Deep Striking a small squad with special weapons for a specific purpose (like Melta'ing some rearguard vehicles) 2. If using allies, there are may be better (for point cost vs effectiveness) Deep Striking units (as Renegade - I have Raptors, Terms, Oblits, etc.) but, the ST's reduced scatter is still a differentiator 3. If not Deep Striking, I might as well spend a little more and use a larger squad of Vets with upgrades or character Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285671-are-storm-troopers-any-good/#findComment-3572511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 That's a good summary Kilo. Next codex, Stormies, next codex... you will shine like the stars you are (hopefully)! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285671-are-storm-troopers-any-good/#findComment-3572708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Kilofix, don't forget the Look Cool Factor (LCF) also. I like space marines fine and the new stern guard box is quite nice but to me Storm Troopets still have more LCF. It's not to be ignored. Cool looking units are fun to paint, boost your confidence (and performance) and in my experience just do better on the tabletop. Storm troopers are worth the extra points for their LCF. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285671-are-storm-troopers-any-good/#findComment-3573724 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 As we all know the Rule of Cool is the most powerful force in 40k :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285671-are-storm-troopers-any-good/#findComment-3573960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kierdale Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Talking of the rule of cool... How about some of Forge World's new Tech Thralls with Las-locks as Stormtroopers? http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/TECH_THRALLS_WITH_LASLOCKS.html Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285671-are-storm-troopers-any-good/#findComment-3577384 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 They look pretty cool, and their Las-locks could easily pass as Hot-Shot Lasguns but it might be difficult to fit them into an army theme as they're quite distinct. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285671-are-storm-troopers-any-good/#findComment-3577422 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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