New Tyranids

[Memento Of Prospero]

I edited the above post to remove the endless quotes and restructure

[da emprah]

I don't think that sacrificing your only two scoring units(10 man at that) to tarpit Mephiston for two rounds of combat is worth it.

At 2,000 you could field:

At 2,000 points I could field

HQ

Mephiston

Troops

3 x ASM (10)

2xPlasma gun

sergeant plasma gun slinger

drop pod

Elites

Sternguard Veterans (9)

Drop pod

Corbulo

Fraggy Dread

Melta gun, magna grapple

Pod

Heavy support

2x Storm Raven

asault cannon, typhoon launcher

The frag dreadnought obliterates the gaunts, and still has 2 S8 ap 2/1 shots to soften up MCs, and fisting action on the charge.

6 plasma shots per ASM squad, and corbulo with the sternguard to maximize FNP bubble. The list is designed to collapse wichever part of the army that will cause most damage while minimizing return fire/assault. The storm ravens pack quite a punch, with bloodstrike missiles 2 crack missiles and the assault cannon.

I can combat squad the marines to hold scoring troops in reserve, or just split them when coming out of the pod.

Mephiston goes bowling wih Tyranid MC heads.

There are also left over points for a power fist or combi weapona for the sternguard.

Looks pretty solid. Except please don't use the term "fisting action"

The list I built obviously wasn't meant to be a super competive list, just meant to be a list to show of how easy it is to build a varied MC list

Though, I think if the haruspex's managed to get into combat with any of those squads they would wade through them and come out stronger. I also think it's pretty fair to say the hive crones will drop those storm ravens pretty quickly, due to the tentaclids having a 36" range. And yes I know that blood strike missiles are range 72. But seriously, when do they ever hit?

[Ushtarador]

The haruspex goes down instantly versus a stormraven, if you get the alpha strike. It has only 4 wounds and a 4+ armor save if I remember correctly, even hurricane bolters will hurt it a lot. On the other hand, your raven will most likely die as well if he enters after you, so it's a bit luck-dependent :)

[da emprah]

 

The haruspex goes down instantly versus a stormraven, if you get the alpha strike. It has only 4 wounds and a 4+ armor save if I remember correctly, even hurricane bolters will hurt it a lot. On the other hand, your raven will most likely die as well if he enters after you, so it's a bit luck-dependent :)

Ummm, not insulting you, you may need to do a bit of reading. The haruspex has 5 wounds and 3+ save. I'm my list I included 3 of them. With toughness 6, hurricane bolters would be a pointless waste of time, and the assault cannons would struggle to do lasting damage. I think you may be thinking of the hive crones. I had 2 of those in the list and while they have a 4+ save and are only toughness 5 they have 5 wounds and they may fire 2 tentaclids a turn which rerolls to hit on flyers, and is haywire and has greater range than bolters and assault cannons. So if the both are alive when the ravens come in range, you basically have a guaranteed kill. Next turn they'll be in range of your strength 8 vector strike and more tentaclids. The ravens will die fast, and that leaves your 2 crones and a harpy pretty much unmolested for the rest of the game. You could then use these to pick off marines or maybe even assault then to tie them up while the rest advances.

[Memento Of Prospero]

E was refering to crones. The hive crones have no more chance of survival agaist a storm raven. My raven loadout kills one on average rolls in a single shooting phase. Can your crones say the same? That is without ground checks. If you went first, they will come in first and see nothing. And die when I come in. The air superiority is a tie for all intents and purposes. My advantage is the alpha strike guanrantees first blood, and the removal if your fragile scoring units.

 

In the end you might kill more, but the above list will win via scenario.

[da emprah]

I think it would turn into a battle of crones and ravens endlessly running away from each other.

How about a more competitive list which still retains mc spam

Hq: flyrant

Elites: 2 venomthropes, 3 zoanthropes

Troops: 30 termagaunts, 30 Termagants, tervigon

Heavy support: 3 carnifex, 3 carnifex, 3 carnifex (there is enough points over to give all the carnifex either barbed stranglers (36" st6 ap5 large blast, pinning) or twin linked devours with brainleech worms (18" st6 ap- assault 6)) I'm leaning towards the stranglers because it would fun dropping all those plates

 

If you put venomthropes behind the gants and in front of the fexs both themselves and the fexs have a 3+ cover save in the open

[Ushtarador]

Yes I meant the crones, just the nasty flying thingies with missiles :) With stormravens and crones it's really just a battle of "who shot first" which makes it very dicy for both sides.

 

I really want to see more venomthropes from tyranids in the future, improving everyone's cover save by 2 is ridiculous. If you manage to hide them behind other MCs or buildings, they will survive much longer, and it makes things like gaunts very hard to kill.

 

I like that you think up new ways how to play the codex emprah, most people just whine at the moment ;) The monstrous creature spam sounds quite nasty indeed, I think it will be awesome when combined with 3+ cover saves. Now you just need something to counter serpent spam!

[da emprah]

thank you Ustarador, as a tyranid player, you must adapt...

all jokes aside, i am rather disappointed with the new codex, not because of the nerfings and that sort of thing. I'm disappointed because they failed to fix things that were clearly broken (pyrovores, warriors, genestealers, old one eye, lictors, and so on)

But there is always some good, luckily for me, monstrous hordes is my play style, and it just became a lot easier to run.

I think maybe building an army around screwing with your enemys target prioritization will become a viable option

[Morticon]

Emprah (and others) - can you please provide some BA context for the post of yours (with the list!) or as per warning previously I'll need to nuke  it.  Just a brief note on what BA units can deal with each of those things -that way it doesnt look like youre just suggesting a nid list on the BA forum.

 

Same goes for everyone else.  

 

Thanks! 

[da emprah]

Except for that last one, I've been creating lists that I think could challenge players and inviting others to try and brainstorm ideas. Just give me a moment to sulk dammit.

 

Fine then back onto topic, how would you deal with the carnifex spam list?

[Ushtarador]

MEPHISTON DEALS WITH EVERYTHING!!

 

Now for something completely serious. :P In a tournament setting around Switzerland, I'm not sure what I would do, as my lists are currently laid out to counter eldar and tau. They also deal very well with necrons and IG etc. I would have to rely a lot on my stormravens to pull me through, and the Fragiosos to get a bit lucky I think.

Specifically countering the list is always relatively easy, but if the tyranid fields something completely out of the current local meta, I would struggle a lot.

 

If I knew what you were fielding, I would play some fragiosos to get rid of your scoring stuff and some sternguard in pods because they're awesome. Then splash in Mephiston, probably some multimelta attack bikes because they're very durable and quite fast. I might also try the melee route with a landraider and some hammer/shield termies, as it seems that Tyranids still can't reliably open AV14 at range, is that correct?

[knife&fork]

 

Fine then back onto topic, how would you deal with the carnifex spam list?

 

Kill synapse? It really seems to be the big Achilles heel of any new Tyranid build.

[da emprah]

i was using the list 6 posts back, ill repost it:

Hq: flyrant
Elites: 2 venomthropes, 3 zoanthropes
Troops: 30 termagaunts, 30 Termagants, tervigon
Heavy support: 3 carnifex, 3 carnifex, 3 carnifex (there is enough points over to give all the carnifex either barbed stranglers (36" st6 ap5 large blast, pinning) or twin linked devours with brainleech worms (18" st6 ap- assault 6)) I'm leaning towards the stranglers because it would fun dropping all those plates

 

now this list runs a small amount of synapse, but say if you lined up the army with the front row termagants, then venomthropes, then fexes and the tervigon at the back and gave the tervigon dominon for the 18" synapse and bunch them up, 3+ cover and fearlessness all round! 

now, hit me with your best shot (and yes know this is not the greatest list, but it will be a very strange opponent if youre list is built to take on taudar, like ushtarador said)

[Memento Of Prospero]

Standard Blood Angel tactics apply brother. Fraggy dreads in pods will roast and ignore cover. The 3+ vover means nothing against assault cannons, heavy bolters and poison rounds. They so not pierce the 3+ save of the MCs.

[Ushtarador]

Assault Cannons will be very annoyed by the 3+ cover though, they only wound on 4s already and kinda rely on the occasional 6 to get an autowound. On average, you'll need somewhere around 40 AC shots to kill a carnifex in 3+ cover, it's not a good counter here. I agree with poison rounds though :)

[Memento Of Prospero]

Assault Cannons will be very annoyed by the 3+ cover though, they only wound on 4s already and kinda rely on the occasional 6 to get an autowound. On average, you'll need somewhere around 40 AC shots to kill a carnifex in 3+ cover, it's not a good counter here. I agree with poison rounds though :)

I am talking about it in general, and the effect of the cover save on weapons that we use that do not pierce armour. Our shooting is not particularly AP heavy, we deal in volume.

 

This is considering mostly baal predators and Storm ravens. We also have access to divination which can remove cover.

[knife&fork]

i was using the list 6 posts back, ill repost it:

Hq: flyrant

Elites: 2 venomthropes, 3 zoanthropes

Troops: 30 termagaunts, 30 Termagants, tervigon

Heavy support: 3 carnifex, 3 carnifex, 3 carnifex (there is enough points over to give all the carnifex either barbed stranglers (36" st6 ap5 large blast, pinning) or twin linked devours with brainleech worms (18" st6 ap- assault 6)) I'm leaning towards the stranglers because it would fun dropping all those plates

 

How about 6-7 librarians. :D Low base ld and I makes the heavy hitters very good targets ;)

[Quixus]

How about 6-7 librarians. Low base ld and I makes the heavy hitters very good targets

Am I missing something here? At best you could field 5 librarians 3 of which are dreadnoughts. It would also mean that you get no Fragiosos.

[knife&fork]

How about 6-7 librarians. Low base ld and I makes the heavy hitters very good targets

Am I missing something here? At best you could field 5 librarians 3 of which are dreadnoughts. It would also mean that you get no Fragiosos.

Allies, check the "how do we kill Taudar" thread.

Powers like psychic scream, terrify and jaws of the world wolf will do a number on the big nids. Fear of the darkness works in case they lose fearless.

[da emprah]

okay how about a tyranid shooting army

hq: tyrant dual devourers and hive commander, tyrant dual devourers and hive commander

elites: 3 full broods of hive guard

troops: 30 devilgaunts, 30 devilgaunts

heavy support: 3 exorcrines

1915pts

 

this list is quite a strange one, but more than likely to disagree with your fragiosos. Both units of 30 devilgaunts may outflank to take back field objectives

[the jeske]

It doesn't matter you trying to build a nid army with 2 synaps units , those die too fast and without them , you have to win by killing every opponents model , because your low Ld units will not be staying on objectives.

 

Mort forgive me .

 

A gold fish tyranid army looks more like this

 

Tyrant

Tyrant

Zoeys

Venom

Gaunts

Gaunts

Warriors

Tervigon[kept way way way away from the gaunts , babysiting the fire base]

Exo

2 biovores

Mawlock

 

The last 2 versions of nids were shoty , the ones that are now are still mostly shoty[well they are bad at melee that is for sure] , but because of synaps , lack of pods and anchor troop units [like the old biomancy tervigon] , they are more of an mixed army . They will never out shot or out melee an opposing army . the nids main problem with BAs is going to be the flyers . Nids have no good way of dealing with flyers , without at the same time crippling their list . Sure they can take 2 dakka tyrants and 2 crones and then lose to any army with substential anti air/multi shot weapons . Second thing is mefisto . Mefisto has this ap3 problem against meq armies , which changed him from a F&F in to a laser scalpel , against nids he has a good chance[thanks to wings] to cast 1-2 power and charge in finishing stuff or just casting wings and using his force weapon to kill nid MC outside of SitW range .

The second problematic BA model is corbs . His FnP is brutal against non str 8 hits . The fact that he alone can tank an exorcine [with a re-roll] will always be a problem . He and mefo tag teaming stuff or tar piting our MC will be a huge  problem in objective games . The rest is general loyalist/meq problems . Marines have better range , they can ally with other marines and it hurts us bad[gravitons , jaws , rune staffs, the sm two gun AA ,+2/3 sv , ++3 invs etc] .

 

Ah am not counting escalation and stronghold here . This does add another layer of complications [how to deal with the D mostly] early test games should not have.

[Bartali]

 

 

Fine then back onto topic, how would you deal with the carnifex spam list?

 

Kill synapse? It really seems to be the big Achilles heel of any new Tyranid build.

 

Indeed. In the Carnifex list posted above, kill the Flyrant, then the Zoans, then the Tervigon. Job done.

 

I feel sorry for Tyranid players, having to provide three durable layers of Synapse (back, mid, forward field) eats into points.

I think the Jeske has posted the standard initial Tyranid template. 2x Flyrants, Zoanthropes, Venomthrope, Tervigon, Gants - add other units to flavour.

As a BA player, you'll need to include ways to :-

1. Take down the Flyrants - Skyfire, Twin-linked shooting.

2. Kill the Zoans. Either by shooting, or breaking through the Gant screen to Assault

3. Have a line breaking unit to get into your opponets backfield to take down the Tervigon

 

With all the Synapse gone, the Tyranid player looses control of there army and it's just a case of mopping up.

[da emprah]

 

 

 

 

 

Fine then back onto topic, how would you deal with the carnifex spam list?

 

Kill synapse? It really seems to be the big Achilles heel of any new Tyranid build.

Indeed. In the Carnifex list posted above, kill the Flyrant, then the Zoans, then the Tervigon. Job done.

 

I feel sorry for Tyranid players, having to provide three durable layers of Synapse (back, mid, forward field) eats into points.

I think the Jeske has posted the standard initial Tyranid template. 2x Flyrants, Zoanthropes, Venomthrope, Tervigon, Gants - add other units to flavour.

As a BA player, you'll need to include ways to :-

1. Take down the Flyrants - Skyfire, Twin-linked shooting.

2. Kill the Zoans. Either by shooting, or breaking through the Gant screen to Assault

3. Have a line breaking unit to get into your opponets backfield to take down the Tervigon

 

With all the Synapse gone, the Tyranid player looses control of there army and it's just a case of mopping up.

Why do people keep acting like its easy to kill a toughness 6, wounds 6, 3+ armour monstrous creature hiding behind a literal wall of carnifexs, hiding behind a giant spore cloud, hiding behind a sea of gaunts! How! Yes I know people will go for synapse creatures straight away with the current rule set, but come on!

[Memento Of Prospero]

Because nothing of that prevents us from shooting at it?

[da emprah]

No, it stops you assaulting it, it also gives a cover save, ranging from ok to damn good. And blood angels aren't tau.