New Tyranids

[Memento Of Prospero]

No, it stops you assaulting it, it also gives a cover save, ranging from ok to damn good. And blood angels aren't tau.

This arguement is going to run in circles...

[da emprah]

 

No, it stops you assaulting it, it also gives a cover save, ranging from ok to damn good. And blood angels aren't tau.

This arguement is going to run in circles...

Mephiston to the rescue! How to win argument if you're a blood angels player!

Haha, good luck getting though my gants. MEPHISTON!!!

Umm, my venomthropes. MEPHISTON!!!!!

No way you're getting through 9 carnifexes! Did someone say MEPHISTON!!!

[Jolemai]

In before lock.

[Memento Of Prospero]

 

 

 

No, it stops you assaulting it, it also gives a cover save, ranging from ok to damn good. And blood angels aren't tau.

This arguement is going to run in circles...

Mephiston to the rescue! How to win argument if you're a blood angels player!

Haha, good luck getting though my gants. MEPHISTON!!!

Umm, my venomthropes. MEPHISTON!!!!!

No way you're getting through 9 carnifexes! Did someone say MEPHISTON!!!

Right...

[Ushtarador]

 

And blood angels aren't tau.

 

But every Tyranid list you will ever encounter in a tournament will be built to deal with Tau, as noone ever plays BA anymore. I'm not as interested in which lists a tyranid might tailor against us, but more which lists we might regularly encounter in tournies, and what would be a good strategy to deal with them.

 

Killing synapses is a good tip if they skimp on them, and stormravens are quite good at cutting pieces out of an army :)

[Bartali]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fine then back onto topic, how would you deal with the carnifex spam list?

Kill synapse? It really seems to be the big Achilles heel of any new Tyranid build.

Indeed. In the Carnifex list posted above, kill the Flyrant, then the Zoans, then the Tervigon. Job done.

 

I feel sorry for Tyranid players, having to provide three durable layers of Synapse (back, mid, forward field) eats into points.

I think the Jeske has posted the standard initial Tyranid template. 2x Flyrants, Zoanthropes, Venomthrope, Tervigon, Gants - add other units to flavour.

As a BA player, you'll need to include ways to :-

1. Take down the Flyrants - Skyfire, Twin-linked shooting.

2. Kill the Zoans. Either by shooting, or breaking through the Gant screen to Assault

3. Have a line breaking unit to get into your opponets backfield to take down the Tervigon

 

With all the Synapse gone, the Tyranid player looses control of there army and it's just a case of mopping up.

Why do people keep acting like its easy to kill a toughness 6, wounds 6, 3+ armour monstrous creature hiding behind a literal wall of carnifexs, hiding behind a giant spore cloud, hiding behind a sea of gaunts! How! Yes I know people will go for synapse creatures straight away with the current rule set, but come on!

 

Generally the Tervigon will be the backfield scoring unit and synapse babysitting Biovores. That's great if you're putting Carnifexes, Venomthropes and Gants in front of it but than that's a large proportion of your army that's not leaving your deployment zone.

 

You could push the Tervigon into midfield, but then when/if it dies it's going to detonate all the Gants in 12".

 

BA have multiple units that can bypass a midfield screen to get into the backfield, either via Pods, Ravens, Outflanking or just plain running down the side of the table.

[knife&fork]

Seriously dudes. just spam psychic shriek or Jotww with allies. No cover, no armor, poor ld and I. With the SW allies you'll even shut down his critical powers half of the time. 

 

Any competitive BA list should be able to deal with several MCs anyway. 

 

Let's face it, the only armies who will struggle against the new nids are Orks, as well as some Daemon and Dark Eldar builds.

[da emprah]

 

And blood angels aren't tau.

 

But every Tyranid list you will ever encounter in a tournament will be built to deal with Tau, as noone ever plays BA anymore. I'm not as interested in which lists a tyranid might tailor against us, but more which lists we might regularly encounter in tournies, and what would be a good strategy to deal with them.

Hmmm, good thinking. I never play tournaments, I just play with a friend, with armies that I think are fun to use. Then again my current wins losses is probably like 235 to 4. Probably because he's not very good, but he does use imperial guard.

 

So we need to find someone who will be using nids at a tournament...

[Bartali]

If I regularly played a friend, and had a 235-4 to record, I'd start giving them some advice on how to play. Playing against good opponents makes you a better player, and will no doubt make the game more enjoyable for both of you.

[RenderDead]

I will hopefully be seeing a couple Nid players this week at a tournament it will be fun!  I will post some thoughts afterwards.

[da emprah]

If I regularly played a friend, and had a 235-4 to record, I'd start giving them some advice on how to play. Playing against good opponents makes you a better player, and will no doubt make the game more enjoyable for both of you.

I do give him advice. Sometimes if I beat him really easy, I will use the army he just used and he will use mine and we will have another game (I mostly win those too, though, but I show him new strategy). I'm not the kind of guy that loves to dominate every game. I play soccer, and I would much rather to lose like 7-5 than win 10-0.

He has been getting better lately, with some very close and enjoyable games. I think it might be the way I play. I often look like I'm about to lose, even I think I will, then massive comeback. A game we played a while ago he had about 5-1 objective points on the 4th turn. End of 5th turn it was 7-2 my way

[Sanguine Eternal]

I have a 1750pts game scheduled against a nid player tomorrow wanting to get some practice in for an upcoming tourney.  I play him often, but against his Tau, and I usually run the same sort of lists, so he knows what to expect.  I on the other hand, do not know what to expect, but I will be a little upset if I lose.

1747pts

 

Ordo Xenos Inquisitor - 137pts

lvl 1Divination

Conversion Beamer

Power Armour

Tome of Vrethic

3 Servo Skulls

OR

Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor - 103pts
Condemnor Boltgun
Power Armour
Psyocculum
Psyker lvl 1 w/ Divination and force weapon

 

SECONDARY DETACHMENT  1610 pts

HQ: Reclusiarch w/ bolt pistol, jump pack -  155pts

ELITES: 3x Furioso Dreadnoughts in drop pod w/ frag cannon, heavy flamer, magna grapple, 2 death wind missile launcher - 595pts

 

TROOP: Death Company x10 w/ jump packs, 2 power swords, 2 power fists, 1 thunder hammer, 2 infernus pistols - 490pts

Scouts x10 w/ sniper rifles, camo cloaks - 170pts

HEAVY SUPPORT: Storm Raven Gunship w/  TLAC, TLMM - 200pts

Now, I'm also thinking about taking a Ordo Hereticus =][= instead of a Xenos =][= mainly for the psyocculum.  BS10 scouts with prescience hunting his synapse will be pretty effective.  The prescience will only be required for non-psychic units, as BS10 is 2+/2+

I think I will go this route instead actually, looks like a good combo.  Frees up some points for 3rd DWLM on the last pod, and still have 17 points left.

[depthcharge12]

Current well put together lists are able to really spam s6 (with the exception of vector strikes, but you can drop pod behind them anywho)

 

Fragoisos will still be very good in the list to tank the s6 and I believe even the rending in tyranids has been toned down, but don't quote me on it.

 

 

Successful units I've seen from bat reps are:

 

mawlocs (the ability to do 2 s6 ap2 large blasts ignore cover then possibly return to reserves is just sick nasty)

 

Dakkafexes in triplicate - 36 s6 twin linked shots is nothing to sneeze at and they can still smash attack, cheap

 

Venomthropes - they have been in everyone's list so far despite that taudar just laughs at cover, however they do fantastic against every other army out there so far

 

Hormagaunts - their ability to do d6+3" is amazing and pushes large blobs up the field, never ever let them charge you even with mephi

 

Flyrants - not as good as last dex, but still powerful and provides mobile synapse

 

Tervigons - not as good, but are still a must take in order to grab objectives and provide more synapse

 

 

 

The name of the game for us is to use storm ravens, preferably 2 if you have them, and fragoisos.

 

You might want to do MSU with las plas razorbacks and 5 man squads with flamers. Still very risky but provides what you need.

 

Big 'ol blob of sterngaurd as usual.

 

 

Anything else is up to you but need to focus on taking out synapse as fast as possible then the army falls apart.

 

 

I also defer to knife&fork as he is the resident guru :D

[Sanguine Eternal]

Yeah the Mawlocs are my big concern for my scouts.  But if they are deployed hopefully on a top floor of a building, the Mawloc shouldn't be able to affect them as it would have to place its large blast presumably on the bottom floor right?  As that is where it emerges from the ground...  If I remember their previous rules they were even nastier though, Str.10 ap2 I thought.  I've had mixed results against Mawlocs.  They either killed a ton when they arrived, or they only killed 1 or 2 models luckily enough for me, and die in the next phase.  The toned down Str.6 is far better in my favour, and less likely to wreck vehicles, and tons of infantry.

Sternguard have done very well in my previous games vs nids with just their basic load out, and a priest near by.
Baal Preds are good as well.  Rate of fire.  Use them in 3's.

I don't know if I'll be to worried about venomthropes with my 3 fragiosos.  I'm more worried about dakkafexes targeting my DC and Raven. I will have to utilize cover as best I can, but with 2 fists and a hammer, I should be able to kill any MC with those alone on a charge.  As I have learned playing against Eldar, you don't need skyfire if you have a ton of twin linked shots to take down a flier.

My biggest fears of the previous dex were the lash whips/bone swords or sabers combo.  Bloody nightmares...  I heard they got toned down as well.

I am using the list I posted above because that is the list I plan on taking to an upcoming tourney.  So far its 3-0 against Marines(mech), Tau, and Necrons/Orks.  Should be fun, I hope they put up a better fight than their previous codex...

[the jeske]

But if they are deployed hopefully on a top floor of a building, the

Mawloc shouldn't be able to affect them as it would have to place its

large blast presumably on the bottom floor right?

Not till it gets FAQed . Right now he plows up unlimited tiers up ,twice . Then dies 1/6 times. Also people should remember that while improved [and not FAQed yet] they still hit like a blast weapon . As long as people spread they ain't going to be killing more dudes then a cover ignoring Lemman Russ. 

[knife&fork]

Is the wording strange or something? Deep strikers are always assumed to arrive on the bottom floor and blasts only hit one floor at the time.

 

I haven't had a chance to play against the new Nids yet, I did however borrow some models and played with them yesterday. 

 

 

It was a lower point game so I went with the waves of meat approach with maxed out troops and primarily warriors for synapse.

 

Having to provide multiple layers of synapse is tricky, 'horrify' makes the broodlord very neat even if the stealers are seriously overpriced, warriors are fine when the opponent doesn't have a lot of S8 shooting.

[the jeske]

he doesn't arrive . you put down a template . last time he was doing the same , only not twice and it had to be FAQed.

[Bartali]

Is the wording strange or something? Deep strikers are always assumed to arrive on the bottom floor and blasts only hit one floor at the time.

 

I haven't had a chance to play against the new Nids yet, I did however borrow some models and played with them yesterday.

 

 

It was a lower point game so I went with the waves of meat approach with maxed out troops and primarily warriors for synapse.

 

Having to provide multiple layers of synapse is tricky, 'horrify' makes the broodlord very neat even if the stealers are seriously overpriced, warriors are fine when the opponent doesn't have a lot of S8 shooting.

The thing to remember with the Broodlord and Horrify is that he has to have line of site to the target at the start of the turn, ie you have to have line of sight the turn before you assault. This normally means your opponent will be shooting you beforehand, or just plain moving out of line of sight in their turn.

Something to remember if you ever face Broodlord/Stealers with BA

[Sanguine Eternal]

 

But if they are deployed hopefully on a top floor of a building, the

Mawloc shouldn't be able to affect them as it would have to place its

large blast presumably on the bottom floor right?

Not till it gets FAQed . Right now he plows up unlimited tiers up ,twice . Then dies 1/6 times. Also people should remember that while improved [and not FAQed yet] they still hit like a blast weapon . As long as people spread they ain't going to be killing more dudes then a cover ignoring Lemman Russ. 

Well lets hope it gets FAQ'd.  Because that rule can only go so far to make sense in the game.  It's a subterranean assault...  Oh well, we will have to wait and see.

[knife&fork]

Well a blast can still only hit one floor at the time according to the BRB so there shouldn't be an issue here. On the other hand GW have done weird things in their FAQs before. RAI is almost impossible to guess. 

 

Horrify is neat little trick to neuter a backfield support unit. Might not be a huge problem for BA, but for lower LD armies (and possible allies) like Tau and IG it could be disastrous. 

 

The stealers are not going to win any battles by them selves but they certainly will contribute to target saturation.  

[Sanguine Eternal]

So I pulled off the victory with my list against 2 Tyranid primes, 4 venomthropes, 6 dakkafexs, 60 gaunts, and a mawloc.

Mission: The Scouring
Deployment: Corners (this also helped out due to terrain placement)

Turn 1 saw me wipe out 30 guants with my 2 fragiosos, and put a wound on a venomthrope with my scouts.  Kept my DC in cover behind LOS.
-I lost 1 fragioso his turn 1

 

Turn 2 nothing came in, kind of hurt me for the turn, kept my DC behind LOS.  Charged a brood of fexes with my 2nd fragioso, taking a couple wounds off, it then died.  Scouts picked put some wounds on 2 venomthropes, killing 1.
-His turn 2 crept a little bit closer,  still nothing to shoot at with my scouts being so far away, and no fragiosos on the board to shoot at.  His mawloc appeared under my DC as expected, killed only 2.

 

Turn 3 my last pod and raven came in.  Killed 1 more squad of 15 gaunts with it.  Raven put a couple wounds on a carnifex.  Scouts rolled amazing this round, and killed put 4 rending wounds through the last 2 fexes in one brood, killing both of them.  Big promotions.  I killed his mawloc in combat with the DC.
-His turn 3 sunk 36 shots into my raven, and glanced it 4 times, I made 2 of my jink saves.

 

Turn 4 I made a heroic 12" move and 10" charge into his 3 dakkafexes with my DC.  Killed them all before he was able to hit me back.
-His turn 4 he decided to grab an objective with his remaining gaunts

 

Turn 5 I took out some gaunts with sniper fire, and failed a horrible 5" charge on the gaunts...  This almost lost me the game.

-His turn 5 he charges my DC with everything, while still being withing 3" of an objective.  His primes killed all my DC, my Reclusiarch declined the challenge first round, but tied one prime up for the rest of the game, making his 4++ like a boss.

The challenge actually won me the game, because his gaunts had to pile in 3" every turn into my last fragioso, as the prime/reclusiarch were in a challenge, bringing them more than 3" away from their objective as my fragioso took out a couple gaunts a round.  I won with first blood.

He had 1 prime, a venomthrope and maybe 5 gaunts left.  I had 10 scouts, Inquisitor, Reclusiarch, Storm Raven, Fragioso, and 2 pods on the table by turn 7.
 

Was a crazy good game.  Those dakka fexes can be scary, but were almost useless this game due to AV13, and hidden troops.  As I said before though, almost blew my raven out of the sky, but my jink saves were lucky.

EDIT: Oh and regarding the Mawloc and targeting upper levels of buildings.  It actually specifically says in their codex that they can only target the ground floor.  Just for any further clarification.  They actually did gain the deepstrike rule, but with special rules for them specifically, as per the previous codex which wasn't very clear.

[Kanis]

Awesome bat-rep Eternal, really neat list to see and I am glad those monstrous things were put down in His name. I'm surprised to see scouts let alone sniper variants these days, it looks like they did well enough, would you recommend trying them out based on how they perform for you? 

 

Thanks for the clarification on that ruling as well, it only makes sense but it's good to have the facts in hand.

[Sanguine Eternal]

I swear by scouts with snipers IF they have a dedicated psyker with prescience.  I've used them a lot in the past few weeks, and they have performed amazing every game.  If I had focused on the carnifexes off the get go instead of shooting this and that, than maybe I could have done a bit more.  I was lucky that they were out of range of his venomthropes in that round of shooting.  Otherwise they would have had a 3 or 4 up cover save.

I forgot to mention I had 3 servo skulls that I used for the first time.  Pretty interesting pieces of wargear.  They weren't nearly as useful this game, but can be used to deny infiltrators deploying in your backfield etc.  My drop pods came in with only 1d6 scatter because I dropped then within 12" of them.  Works really well.  I was hoping he would have psykers in his list, but sadly, he did not.  Couldn't capitalize on the 2+/2+ to hit with scouts.  Will be really good against Eldar I hope.