We now have a drop pod

[Iron_Within]

So the rules for the Kharibdis Assault pod have been released.

 

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/K/Kharybdis.pdf

 

Seems dammed pricy for it's effectiveness, interesting that it's both an assault vehicle but troops cannot assault out of it when it lands (bummer - seems silly). Delivery 10 Terminators would be nice though.

[daveNYC]

It's a 260 point Heavy Support choice.  

 

It's got mishap mitigation which is nice.  The heat blast isn't that impressive and means you can't disembark, which doesn't help either.  The assault launchers have pinning, which could be useful, especially with five of them.

 

And it's a 260 point Heavy Support choice.

[d@n]

It's also an assault vehicle so should make zerkers a lot more competitive. On another note, thousand sons are going to be far more competitive aswell

[Forté]

Not at the price of it.

[Sception]

The price is way over the top, especially for dreadnought delivery (if it could deliver a dread AND a 10 man squad, or 2 dreads...)

Re: the assault vehicle rule, I believe the theory is that you would deep strike it first turn, do the flame attack instead of disembarking, then hope the 5 AV12 hull points last the enemy turn, and on the following turn you would disembark your 20 man unit (or 10 man terminator unit), move, fire all five missile launchers from the pod, and then assault with the benefits of its frag grenades.

Of course, even with 5 hull points, I don't see an AV12 hovering flyer lasting out an entire enemy turn and still being alive to deliver the unit inside, and if it gets surrounded first, then you lose the contents altogether. So i don't think the assault vehicle, frag launchers, or flame blast rules would see much use. Honestly, it's big enough, expensive enough, and looks armored enough, that it could have just been AV13. I'm really actually getting kind of sick of AV12 in our current rules. Just enough armor that the rules writers can feel justified giving our vehicles absurdly pricey points costs, but not enough armor to stop our vehicles from being easy gifts to the enemy.

The melta blast in particular is rather disappointing, I was expecting something entirely higher strength & lower AP than that, if perhaps with a smaller radius of effect. As it is, it doesn't seem like the kind of tool that could cut through a capital ship's armor to deliver the unit inside.

The way it's written, it seems like it not only counts as a drop pod for drop pod assault, but actually gives our army that rule when we didn't have it before. Something tells me that probably isn't actually intended, we'll have to see if they change that in the final version.

As it's written, it also has machine spirit rules to fire its missiles at different targets. Usually machine spirit rules are dropped from CSM vehicles. We'll have to see if we keep it in the final version.


Sad to see: not a dedicated transport (though this wasn't expected given the size); so darned expensive in points (could have been 80, maybe even 100 points less without anyone batting an eye; so darned expensive in dollars (wowee that's a pricey drop pod); can't take anything else alongside a dread (way too pricey to transport a single dread, so no help for our poor helbrute); melta cutters much lower strength than expected; AV12 on such an expensive vehicle.

Happy to see: deep strike mitigation; first turn arrival (for now); 5 hull points; not available to loyalists; heavy support (crowded slot, but not as crowded as fast attack, and can be fielded alongside dreadclaws if FW ever releases fixed rules / new models for them).


Overall, this thing looks pretty bad to me. 250+ points to deep strike a single unit with scatter mitigation, plus a pile of special rules unlikely to ever see use even by players who do use the vehicle. Still might proxy it out as an alternative to Land Raiders/Spartans for trying to deliver some sort of terminator deathstar, or to see what can be done with 20 CSMs with characters in the opposing deployment zone T1.

Maybe black legion list infiltrating chosen via huron & fallen via Cypher, plus dropping a big squad (something) with huron attached via the Kharybdis first turn? If you get to go first, that's a decent amount of stuff in your opponent's face before they can react.

The points inefficiency of it all probably kills it (chosen overpriced before obligatory vets, cypher overpriced, Kharybdis overpriced, probably end up effectively spotting the opponent 300 or more points in an 1850 point game).


Still, it's certainly something new to think about. Hopefully we see a new dreadclaw somewhere along the lines with some of these rules incorporated. And hopefully we see them drop the points on this guy, heavily. I can't see it being worth more than 180 points, maybe 220 if they up the armor to 13.

[Tzen]

And it's a real steal at a mere £145. Maybe I'll buy one for every squad in my army.

 

What a load of balls. Talk about pricing themselves out of the market.

[maskpking]

So its $200 and 260 points??????

 

Mod: Language!

[Tenebris]

NOT worth it!

 

Between the price in points, the price for our poor wallets and the general lack of combos to make such an expensive investment worthwhile I would rather spend all those points and cash on more useful things. I get it, team Chaos is in a desperate need of a Drop Pod, but we all know that we speak of the 35 points type Drop Pod, cheap, useful and apposite transport nothing fancy, the FW variant, both FW variants are all the way over the top for our army. 

 

I think I will pass... 

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

Wait, a 260 point heavy slot assault vehicle that you cannot assault out of?? Did somebody forget their daily meds??

 

...was it me??
 

End of Line

[Ammonius]

Well, you can assault out of it the turn it lands, just not Heat Blast and assault.

 

Also, it can take off and fly around (if it's still operational) after dropping in to deliver the unit inside, and the rules seem to envision this thing careening around the battlefield, leaving a trail of fire and dipping low to smash into things as it goes.

 

Like everyone, I'm personally hoping that the final version of the rules are in line with the actual job this thing is supposed to do, and the very high sale price.

[disease]

the problem is, its outclassed by the loyalist ceastus assult ram in almost every way  (can still carry ten terminators, armour 14 all round, 20pts more, Magna Melta Blasts !!!!)

 

However, unlike GW, FW do occasionally listen to feedback so get writing either by post or on their facebookpage

[Spacefrisian]

Its also a flyer, and its not immobile like a regular droppod, so deepstrike, stay as flyer, land later and assault. Sounds to good to be true so i must have missread something.

[Aragantes]

I feel it is lacklustre at best. The fire raptor is a far better choice in my eyes, and I think I am going to start running two with a pair of contemptors instead of purchasing a Couple LRs and replacing my helbrutes. FW may not always be spot on, but they do get it right more often than not.

[Dam13n]

Ammonius - The assault vehicle special rule does not over-rule the "may not assault on the turn they arrive from reserves" see the BRB FAQ.

 

Therefore this arrives turn 1 (you are unlikely to have more than 1) it counts as a vehicle moving at cruising speed (so you can't disembark, it lacks the standard drop pods rules to allow it) so you may as well use the flame blast and fire the missile launchers.

 

(Or you could flat out, I can't see anything saying it can't).

 

You have to survive an enemy turn. It has a 5+ jink (hover = skimmer and counts as having moved, and would increase to 4+ if you went flat out)

 

It has to stay in hover mode in order to disembark its passengers. It could move 6" then release them or they get out then it could move 12".

 

Anyway, it's not worth 260pts, 165-175pts would be about right. It also needs the ability to embark more than one unit to truly be a game changer for chaos (we don't have combat squads). Alternatively the shrouded special rule on the turn it arrives (like the lucius pod has) wouldn't go amiss.

[Ammonius]

Hm. yeah I guess we need a drop pod that is a drop pod.

I had assumed that since it had a rule called "drop pod assault" that it could land and deploy troops like a drop pod does. Or am I wrong about how drop pods work?

[Warsmith Aznable]

drop pad assault is just a rule to get half your pods down on turn 1. You pod down and unload, but you still can't assault. You send shooty units in to melta tanks or hose troop blobs. If you're a loyalist. Except we have Termicide and Oblits that do that better and cheaper than this would enable us to do. This would give us a way to get dreads into the enemy backfield or attempt to get larger TDA units into useful assaults in the 2nd turn, but it costs too many points and at AV12 could end up stranding or killing those expensive elites, ruining your entire game plan in one round of shooting.

[Ammonius]

Well, consider my enthusiasm curbed. Hopefully they are lowballing the rules to begin with and by the time they final draft is published it's worth considering. 

[chillin]

I will NEVER buy a $200 model ! That's ridiculous . My 50" flat screen, high def, TV my girlfriend just got me only cost $350.

[Sception]

Wow, you can't even choose to disembark the turn you land? Yeah, this tjing is worth maybe 120 points, tops. Even that may be overselling it.

 

EDIT: NO, THERE'S AN EXCEPTION FOR DISEMBARKING BUILT INTO THE DEEP STRIKE RULES.  You can disembark the turn you arrive, you just give up the flame blast, assault transport, and frag launchers rules to do so.  Yikes.  Doesn't make it sound much better.

[Iron Skull Mask]

Wow, you can't even choose to disembark the turn you land? Yeah, this tjing is worth maybe 120 points, tops. Even that may be overselling it.

 

Why is that? As I understood it you just can't disembark AND charge into combat the turn it lands, but you can disembark and shoot. Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

[Deadman Wade]

Well, almost like a dreadclaw - overpriced drop pod with tons of useless additional rules and wargear. Missile launchers, flame blast, 2 more hull points, double transport capacity and ability to use it as a flyer, yeah yeah. Simple drop pod is better just because for 260 points you can take seven drop pods, which means up to 40 models from four different units arrive turn one.

It might do well in Apocalypse games, I think.

[Sception]

 

Wow, you can't even choose to disembark the turn you land? Yeah, this tjing is worth maybe 120 points, tops. Even that may be overselling it.

 

Why is that? As I understood it you just can't disembark AND charge into combat the turn it lands, but you can disembark and shoot. Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

 

A vehicle arriving from deep strike counts as moving flat out.  Transports that move flat out cannot disembark passengers.  Drop pods have a special rule specifically overriding this to let them disembark the turn they arrive.  The Kharybdis does not.  The dreadclaw probably doesn't either, for that matter.  So they cannot disembark passengers the turn they arrive.

 

Unless there's something in the Deep Strike rules about that.  I'll have to check when I have book access again.  Can't believe I forgot to look there.

 

EDIT: THERE WAS SOMETHING IN THE DEEP STRIKE RULES.  I WAS WRONG.  YOU CAN DISEMBARK THE TURN YOU ARRIVE.

 

Now, you can arrive, then on the next turn move, disembark, shoot, and assault, but the claw has to survive an enemy turn to do that, and has to survive it as an armor 12 flyer in hover mode, and if you don't think your opponent has the resources to drop an armor 12 skimmer, you should remind yourself that you're probably looking at 500 points between the vehicle and the contents, more if you stick a character in there, so... yeah.  Further, if you land close to an enemy unit to try and use the flame attack and missile pods when you land, then you're just begging for the unit you attacked to then surround you so when the pod blows you lose the unit inside, too.

 

 

This thing really, really needed to be armor 13, and about 100 points cheaper.

[daveNYC]

Seems like a screwed up mish-mash of a vehicle to me.  Assault Vehicle, Drop Pod Assault, the rule preventing assaulting when arriving from reserve, the Heat Blast preventing disembarking... all those rules combine to make an assault vehicle that isn't likely to actually be used as an assault vehicle.

 

It really seems like the plan is 1) show up, 2) heat blast, 3) hope you don't die, 4) hop out and kill.  But it's AV12, so you're going to have to hide, probably, which means dropping your dudes off close enough to assault is more difficult, and if you're going to hide anyway, why bother with the deep strike (and the mitigation implies that you're going to be trying to come in right on top of your target... crap, I dunno.  I'm pretty sure it's not worth the points or HS slot though.

 

And I've had belches that are more impressive than that Heat Blast.  It's not useless, but I was really expecting something more along the lines of what the Caestus can put out.  

[Sception]

NOTE: I was incorrect about the disembarking thing. I had thought the exception allowing drop pods to disembark when deep striking (despite counting as moving flat out) was a special rule of drop pods, one that the Kharybdis lacked. Actually, it's built into the deep strike rules (deep striking units are specifically allowed to disembark from transports).

 

So you can disembark from it, and it isn't just throwing the unit away. But even then, you're baying ridiculous amounts of points for special rules you will then never use. It's basically a double capacity drop pod, for 7 times the cost of a drop pod, plus a heavy slot. Not functionally broken, but still nigh unusable due to a points cost at least double what it should be.

[Tenebris]

Especially when you have a Land Raider for that cost, with better armor, better mobility and better firepower. It is an Assault vehicle and even allows you to place a Dirge Caster where it is needed. I would rather take a Land Raider over the Kharybdis every day.