Split fire+DWA against eldar

[Garath]

    I'm not sure if you guys already talked about this, if yes then we have a repeated thread.

 

 

  Anyway, the increasing number of Eldar players sporting Wave Serpants  are a new thing in my local Meta.

 

  When this kind of thing happens, as usually I was looking through the BRB for possible tactical ideas.  

 

  The problem arises when there's a Wave serpent with important content inside (like a Farseer with Fire dragons) starts flying around the board.  4+ jink in combo with ist's shield makes it hard for every unit in our codex  to take down.  

 

  One solution is when the WS has not yet moved and it's parked somewhere behind a building ,at the start of the game.

 

  I know it's a corner case scenario - but it does indeed apply to any transported unit .

 

 

  Coming to the point.   

 

  Deathwing assault is a safe way to get 5-10 terminators to any part of ther board on turn one or 2.  The chances of them landing safely are 33% . A lucky scatter is also a relatively common thing.  Even if they end up on another unit- they only die on a 1.

   

  Let's say we deep strike this behind that transport:

 

  5 Terminators,storm bolters, plasma cannon

  Librarian/Chaplin in TA, combi melta

 

   Split fire

 

  Here's how that whole thing might work.  Split fire needs a passed LD test.  That's a 10 ,and if they fail , then to hell with them.  If they pass,  Split fire says that one member of the unit chooses a target and shoots it.  Furthermore, the BRB states his shot is completely resolved.  Then the unit fires at a different target.

 

   Meaning, IC can melt the tank/transport (and has a re-roll to hit from DWA) ,after the transported unit does an emergency disembark and is all nicely bunched up- terminators will hit them with everything.

 

 

  I know that this tactic cannot be used against all opponents  (interceptor anyone?)- but can come as a surprise when the enemy doesn't expect it.  

  Even is the enemy have interceptor, their own transports can block LOS for interceptor units.

 

  Comments?  

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Murphy's law says if that anything can go wrong, it will. Risky tactic, can be made more reliable by adding Belial to the equation. You're still gambling on the fact the single melta weapon will destroy the transport and the plasma cannon will do it's job. Frankly if you're DS that close I'd rather use the Heavy flamer since it's auto hit with re-roll to wound. Most of the Eldar have 4+ saves or worse anyway...

[Garath]

Yes, I was thinking of this too.  Perhaps even a Missile launcher .  Plasma was taken in mind so that if the squad scatters a couple of incher off they would still be in range.  

 

 If they scatter 7" behind the transport in question- melta will not be in double penn range- but still has a good chance of destroing the transport.  In that case, a heavy flamer will lack range.

 

I was even considering a combi plasma-  that was the IC has 2 twin linked shots, a possible 2 damage rolls 

 

 The whole thing is ...a gamble - and really depends on the type of target

[Chaplain Lucifer]

I apologise, my HF suggestion was only for Belial being present, Without Belial I think ML or AC would be good substitutes for PC. My dislike for PC is because of: overheat and the fact that can scatter/scatter back to you if you land close to your target.

Having a ML /AC and and combi melta would give you reassurance if you land beyond melta range. In that case the heavy weapon would be taking out the tank and worse case scenario, twin linked stormbolter fire could at least inflict damage on the transport crew. It's nice to gamble, but IMHo you can stack some odds into yor favour in case something wrong happens.

[Larhendiel]

I think it was FAQ'd somewhere before that you cannot use split fire to destroy the transport and then shoot cargo that was inside with the same unit.

[johnyocum]

It's not in the FAQ, but in the BRB.  You can't use the same unit to wreck a transport and shoot up the unit inside on the same turn.

[Garath]

Split fire:

 

\fhen  a  unit  that  contains  at least  one

model  with  this  special  rule  shoots,  one

model  in  the  unit  can shoot at a  different

target  to the rest  of his unit. To do so,

the  unit  must  first  take a  Leadership

test.  If  the  test is  failed, the  unit  shoots

as  normal. tf  the test  is  passed,  choose

one model in  the unit  and immediately

make a  shooting  attack with  it.  Once

this shoodng  attack  has  been resolved,

resolve the  shooting  attacks  made by

the  rest of the  unit,  which  must be at a

different  target.

 

  That's the wording of split fire.  Unit transported and their transports are different targets.

[Larhendiel]

It is in a FAQ on GW webpage:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3440036a_40K_RULEBOOK_v1.5_September_13.pdf

 

It says:

Page 42 –

Split Fire

Change the last sentence to “Once this shooting attack has

been resolved, resolve the shooting attacks made by the rest of

the unit. These must be at a different target and may not be a

unit forced to disembark from any Transport that has been

Wrecked or suffered an Explodes! result due to the Split Firing

unit’s initial shooting attack.”

[johnyocum]

BRB p80:
"As all models in a single unit fire simultaneously, a squad can not wreck a transport and then fire at its occupants.  However, if a Transport is destroyed by a shooting attack, any unit that shot it that turn can, if allowed, charge the now disembarked passengers."

 

As for the part in the FAQ, I do stand corrected.  I'd just read page 80 when I posted what I did.
 

[Garath]

 Damn!   Thanks guys , you are right...  (goes of bitching about broken Eldar and finding a way to get a break!$%$%&%/)

[march10k]

BRB p80:

"As all models in a single unit fire simultaneously, a squad can not wreck a transport and then fire at its occupants.  However, if a Transport is destroyed by a shooting attack, any unit that shot it that turn can, if allowed, charge the now disembarked passengers."

 

As for the part in the FAQ, I do stand corrected.  I'd just read page 80 when I posted what I did.

 

 

The split fire rule overrides the text on page 80. When special rules and general rules conflict, the special rule wins.  Otherwise, there would be no need for the FAQ in this case, eh?

[Garath]

So what is the solution then?  Can I split fire to kill a transport, then use the rest of the squad to take out the squad inside?

[Larhendiel]

You can charge at unit that was inside. A onit of bikers with melta or unit of black knights seems cheaper and more agile for this job than unit of termies.

[Gillyfish]

The other option is to use a second squad to shoot at the newly emerged transportees (assuming you can) or to charge them.

[Lysere]

You could use your stormbolters to try and glance one and an assault cannon to try and snag another. Then just use a second squad of some kind to do the same thing to the guys who just lost their transports.

[Brother_Darius]

I actually like to use Whirlwind.  Cheap and don't have to risk other units.

 

Ordinance/Barrage on the rear of the Wave Serp.

 

Ignores Cover, Two Dice-pick higest for Pen.

[Garath]

I actually like to use Whirlwind.  Cheap and don't have to risk other units.

 

Ordinance/Barrage on the rear of the Wave Serp.

 

Ignores Cover, Two Dice-pick higest for Pen.

Except that barrage weapons always hit side AV... 

[Brother_Darius]

 

I actually like to use Whirlwind.  Cheap and don't have to risk other units.

 

Ordinance/Barrage on the rear of the Wave Serp.

 

Ignores Cover, Two Dice-pick higest for Pen.

Except that barrage weapons always hit side AV... 

They do? Looks like we've been doing it wrong in my group.

[Garath]

 Unfortunately , the game designers... where careful no to screw the eldar over

[Brother_Darius]

 Unfortunately , the game designers... where careful no to screw the eldar over

So its because of the wave serpent that its always side armor? Not something that is inherently in barrages?

[Chaplain Lucifer]

 

 Unfortunately , the game designers... where careful no to screw the eldar over

So its because of the wave serpent that its always side armor? Not something that is inherently in barrages?

Must be because normal rules say nothing about barrage weapons just htting side armor. I still haven't played Eldar so I confess having no knowledge of peculiar rules.

[Retaliation]

Resolving hits against side armor is a thing universal to all barrage weapons.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

I may be becoming blind as a bat because I can't locate on  page 34 or 100 say anything about barrages resolving hits on side armour. Can someone provide a page number and paragraph if possible?

[Biggabertha]

On Page 34, Barrage, in the second bulletin point, last sentence:

 

"Hits against vehicles are always resolved against their side armour."

 

Which sucks because I thought they resolved against the rear too - too bad the rules don't change for open topped vehicles since you know... barrage weapons right on top of the troops/drivers seems like they wouldn't be able to disembark from a vehicle wrecked from a barrage weapon, lol

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Thanks, I read and re-read and that part always eluded me. I better go ask the apothecary for some eye-drops.. or emperor forbid.. the techmarine for bionics...