Eldar trouble

[BloodTzar]

Hello brothers,

I have been quiet for a while, as I have forgot my pass and took me a while to recover it

Anyways, last game of 40k I had, went down terrible for me, just go tabled turn 3 vs. Eldar (I guess friendly build).

I had:

Lib (lance,shield), 5xTH/SS termies, Corbs all in SR (MM,AC) than empty SR just like this. On table I had, 7xSW tacticals (cant remember the name), 20 jumpers (melta, PW) priest and rune priest, that supported by Fragiouso in pod

He had (cant remember all the fancy names)

Some striking scorps HQ (OMG I8 S8 very neat), farseer (lvl3 lib) supported with 20 man guardian blob with lances , some other warlock with bikes, than some serpents with some eldar infatry inside(rending all the way) big eldar transformer, nasty spiders and some lancewalkers

I wonder how you eleminate the age factor that our codex is facing, as we are not able to keep the "price vs. quality" ratio comeptetive, with beeing one of the oldest and one of the most expensive codexes out there?

On the other hand, just one rule question, can perfect timing and the one that forces you to reroll saves(cover etc.) be casted on SR, in other words just screwing your jink or Shield of Sang totaly...

Thank you for all the help

~BT

[MadMek83]

Eliminating Codex creep is hard, especially when BA codex is really made for the assault which took big nerfbat. However Fragiosos are very strong against Eldars. Drop pods are good against Eldars, especially if you go first. BA's strength is speed but, against Eldar's its not that great advantage. Baal Predators outflanking, deepstriking Elements to force Eldars commit some troops on their side of the table or using pods to block line of sight getting protected from the lances etc.

 

What you must do is trying as much as possible to limit his movements. Eldars live by the speed, when they stop, they die. Baal predators, Fragiosos on drop pods and drop pod / deep striking elements help in this. And What eldar players hate is when outflankin Dakka Baals come, it intends to ruin day, since serpent shields cannot protect hits from behind.

 

Eldar army works best as one unit supporting another. if supporting unit (like Fire Prism is taken out) the element it was supporting is suffering way more than marine army. There are very few Eldar elements that can actually work well alone without support Since Eldar army is army of specialists, picking fists is important. Hitting the supporting with outlfanking / deep striking units tend to make Eldar players cringe slightly.  Using pods to block routes what they can use and limit movement / sight also tends to frust rate most Eldar players.  You should hit long range units close, shoot specialist CC units or short range units (Scorpions, Banshees, Spiders and Dragons). use long rage fire power or vehicles neuter Guardian blops. Whirlwinds tend to to be very hated unit in here among Eldar players. Heavy flamers are good against Eldars, especially TL heavy flamer razorbacks have been proved very useful.

 

I haven't played much against Eldars, I am usually playing with them these days so I am not sure how much this helps.

[Bartali]

It's hard really to give advice versus Eldar. They outshoot BA and have the mobility to keep away from Assault. Podding isn't effective either as they can drive away from your dropped short-ranged units and shoot them, whilst having the durability to absorb the alpha strike. In some respects Tau are easier for BA than Eldar as they're easier to pin down. 

 

I'd advise being aware of the mission, and target priority. Make sure you play on tables with LOS blocking terrain.

[Chaplain Admetus]

Eldar only have a few really ridiculous things. First off, what you faced - scatter lasers and wave serpents. Scatter lasers are annoying because they twin-link other weapons on the vehicle if they hit. Since they're BS4, twin-linked themselves, and get 4 shots, that's basically twin-linked all the other weapons constantly. Wave serpents have the cheesefest that is moving a millimetre for a 3+ cover save (jink and holofields), and a weapon that either downgrades penetrating hits to glancing hits on a 4+, or can be fired as a S7 60" range D6+1 ignores cover shot. The trick to stopping them is DS melta, as the shield only works if you hit it from the front or the side, meaning you -only- have a 3+ save to contend with.

[Bartali]

Most decent Eldar players will position the Serpents so block off the rear to deep strikers.

 

Probably the best way of BA blowing up Serpents is with Krak Grenades and Meltabombs in assault. If you can catch them of course.

If I was tailoring to play Wave Serpent spam, I'd be trying out 60 ASM with Priest support.

[Judaz]

Eldar is no longer the specialist army it used to be. With the the help of psychic powers some of the new units are very versatile. And shuriken weapons make all PA armies cry in their sleep. 
Podding is a good way to hurt Eldar armies. Flamers and Frag cannons do wonders against the pointy ears. The problem then will be their Wraith units. T6 and above aren't afraid of flamers. Outflanking Baals will put the hurt on Wraithlords, but will surely blow up if they don't take down their prey. 

With 5th rules BA would stand a better chance against Eldar, but in 6th we are too far behind in codex creep to be a real threat. As Bartali said, we stand a better chance against Tau. It isn't impossible to beat the Eldar, far from. But we really have to think when we play against them, and have a little luck.

My best weapons against Eldar are Fragiosos, podded sternguard with combi flamers and as always DC. A podded rune priest also helps a lot if you don't mind furry allies.

[knife&fork]

These things are being discussed in the thread below....

[the jeske]

eleminate the age factor that our codex is facing,

Sit down and reset objectives when playing against eldar. Start thinking this way . Perfect situation. Tactics worked , got good dice mojo . Draw . Good situation . slight win in his favor didn't get tabled . etc

 

If you are willing to use ally load up on sm for example . an ES/TH chapter master with 2 units of gravbikes can help a lot against stuff like WK [if they are a problem for you] , they also give you options to play good stuff. Slap some BA HQs and tank the rending with two or three HQs on bikes .  Run D weapons to ignore cover/invs etc . Stack up on void shields to give your units some breathing space while your army is mostly gunlines with dual plas RAS , razorbacks and tau ally .

[BloodTzar]

First of all, thank you for your advises.

Second, I wonder if the DP heavy armies are the only way, BA can go. Because most of you have advised 3+ DPs as the core. I know that DP can be deadly supprise T1, but most of the guys, know how to deploy looking at your list. Creating denial for T1 rear armor shots/unit isolation. Moreover , I personally own 1 DP, not willing to buy 5+ more just because the GW's power creep

Therefore is there anything else, I could do besides getting DP heavy army?

Lastly, I was thinking about going for IH SM allies, as they can dish out chapter-bikester with 2+/3+ 6+ FNP and regen wounds on top of the grav bikes, maybe some TH cannons and all the nasty SM updated prices...any experiences with SM allies?

*EDIT*: what we causally play is 1850 format

Thank you

~BT

[Bartali]

I don't agree with Drop Podding being the answer to Wave Serpents (and I guess this is what we're really talking about here). As you say, any savy player will position their Serpents so you can't fire at the rear.

 

On paper, 60 jumpers with FNP is probably the best we can do versus Serpents. Krak Grenades and Meltabombs will do a number, and you can deepstrike Meltaguns should your opponent deploy poorly. Bikes with Melta/Plasma should have the mobility to get into rear arcs too.

 

Mebbe something like this as a base ? (1430pts)

 

Librarian w/ Bike

2x Sang Priest w/ Bike

3x 10 ASM w/ Flamerx2, Meltabomb

3x 3 Bikes w/ Plasmagunx2, Multi-Melta Attack Bike

[Jolemai]

Is that a Blood Rodeo list I see?

[Judaz]

I've tried lots of bodies jumping across the field, but as soon as they get in range of the shuriken catapults they go down like flies. The only way to not get mangled is to make a high assault roll, but if that fails they stand there and get shot to pieces. And add Wave serpent to that...
 

Or am I doing it completely wrong?

[knife&fork]

You've got the hammer down but not the anvil. Have to fix them in position somehow or crowd the board until they cannot run from one unit without running into range of another. 

 

Difficult to do with just BA marines as they are pricey, have you considered trading a unit or two of vanguard to take out some wave serpents?