HH battles that used MK V power armor

[recon0321]

Title says it all....I would think the dropsite massacre (well maybe the hit and run battles with the RG) any others?

[Kol Saresk]

It would technically be anything following the Dropsite Massacre from the rest of Istvaan V to Terra. Although different Legions would start using it at differemt points. For example, the Fists wouldn't use it until after the Battle of Phall. The Ultramarines would start out using it due to the fact that the Mk V is all unnofficial and/or ad hoc designs and the Praetor pattern was an unifficial design. And so on.

[Sanct]

The Sons of Horus, EC, DG and World Eaters are also likely to have used Mk.V modifcations due to damage and losses at Istvaan III

[Grotsmasha]

Although FW has a fixed identity/model for mkV's, technically post Istvaan any mixed suit of armour is mkV, iirc.

 

Cheers,

Jono

[Don the Oiler]

Depending on what you consider a "battle" and how you cope with retcons/re-retcons and the general fluidity and tzeentchizity of 40K fluff, the only time i remember specifically mkV being worn was in Battle for the Abyss by the World Eater Skraal.

Which was technically before he or his Ultramarine and Space Wolf brothers even knew that there was a schism, so i doubt it was labeled "Heresy-Armour" at that time. But that same novel had pretty much every other Marine already wear mkVI Corvus pattern, which doesn't help either.

Don't know about Legion, the cover showed mkV but i don't remember if it was mentioned by name.

[Kol Saresk]

Skraal didn't know there was a schism either. And only the Word Bearers had Mk VI IIRC. And since they were right there in the Sol system before they left after receiving the most technologically advanced ship the Mechanicum had ever created, them having Mk VI isn't exactly too much of a stretch.

 

And Legion had the Alpha Legion in Mk IV type armor with at least one showing up in a Balesnout-pattern helmet. Also, Mk V is literally described as being a moniker for any unofficial or ad hoc design of armor. Praetor pattern, custom suits, suits made from scavenged pieces of armor, etc etc. If it is not official or is considered "ad hoc", it is Mk V.

[infyrana]

Hehe fluff and historical information mixes again :)

 

Take into account the losses sustained by the Raven Guard legion from the drop site massacre.  The lexi' tells us that the tech marines made ad hoc armour for the remaining marines.  Follow this up by the 2000 suits of MkVI armour, and you probably have a mixed bag of around 1000 troops wearing anything from MkII through to MkV.

 

With regards to Death Guard, I'd say due to their lack of interest in cleaning or removing their damaged armour, and their toughness of weathering such, it is unlikely you would have seen the Death Guard post Istvaan 3 in much different from what they had when they went into the battle (and you'll note a lot of the FW DG models for 40k are MkIII).  Changes on the other hand would definitely have occurred after Typhon got ahold of the flagship and sent them into the Warp, bypass MkV and straight into Nurgle-bloat.

 

I guess you have to take each legion by itself and find out where they stood at each point.

[Kol Saresk]

Yeah, but the distance between Istvaan III and the final jump to Terra is still seven-ish years. Plenty of time for repairs to have to be necessitated.

[Don the Oiler]

Skraal didn't know there was a schism either

Entirely my point. But he wore something considered to be a post-Istvaan/heresy era pattern before he even knew what Istvaan was about. AND it was mentioned by name. And i think it was mentioned right at the beginning of the novel that he wore a battered mkV suit as opposed to the other Marines wearing mkVI on that station, which would mean the Ultramarines and Space Wolves. The Word Bearers weren't even mentioned yet.

Which isn't *that* much of a stretch either, since they were supposed to be some sort of honour guard, but the notion seemed to be that mkVI was standard by that point.

Or it could simply be a typo.

[Kol Saresk]

Hmm. The Word Bearers get mentioned on page 11 and they are described as wearing completely brand new sets of armor, although a Mark isn't given. But yeah, you are right. On page 62 it does clearly say that Skraal is wearing Mk V and everyone else is wearing Mk VI. Maybe that's the bit that is being retconned.

 

EDIT: Although, looking at the cover I can certainly see why Ben Counter would give them Mk VI.

[Don the Oiler]

Since you seem to have the book in reach, does it say "Corvus" or simply "mkVI"? Because i could sleep much better convincing myself it's simply a typo and he meant mkIV. And the cover illustrator just went with what he read.

[Kol Saresk]

Unfortunately it explicitly says "Corvus". Actually that's the funny part, the only time I can find it giving a "Mk #" is when it calls Skraal's armor the Mk V.

[Don the Oiler]

Ach, there goes my sleep. Thanks anyway.

The "point of retcon" probably was shortly after that very novel. In all fairness, the Index Astartes articles showed most of the pre-Heresy Marines in Corvus too. The Word Bearer even still in grey.

[recon0321]

I guess it is a case by case basis but I do believe that the raven guard were the first loyalists to have MK VI? But being that the half the AD MECH sided with horus I think the traitors would have the pick of the litter

[Barabbas Sogalon]

I hate the retcon on the mk VI. Its one of my favourite marks and I have heaps of it lying around, but I can't use any of it because someone decided that the Raven Guard would get all the fun. I might end up ignoring it and using the Index Astartes as my reference.

 

Just something I had to vent before going to bed.

[Kol Saresk]

Er, yes and no. Technically, the Word Bearers would be the first, a la Furious Abyss, but it would only be that one Chapter, which was completely destroyed with the Furious Abyss. That would either be concurrent to Istvaan V or sometime later. However, it couldn't start too much later since the Astartes at the station were completely unaware of even Istvaan III.

 

But then we would get to Deliverance Lost-ish where the Imperial Fists would give the Mk VI they had salvaged to that point to the Raven Guard, and would then most likely store any future Mk VI suits they salvaged from the Martian civil War.

 

There is still the question of how the Alpha Legion are going to get the Mk VI however. That might open the doorway to some new ways of working around this "restriction". Also, there is the "balesnout" pattern breather from Legion, which if the cover is anything to go by, is a half-snout helmet, which does open the door for some "Mk VI-ish" looking pieces to be used.

 

One thing I think we don't stress enough is that there is ton of potential thrown aroun with various armor patterns(Forgeworld giving two breather patterns that resemble the Mk VII for example) that if we chose too, we could easily work it in. Provided we want to put the effort into the fluff. If we don't feel like doing fluff, then there shouldn't be that much stopping us.

[recon0321]

When did the RG go to mars to help the civil war?

[Kol Saresk]

They didn't. They went to Terra and then went to Deliverance. After they had gotten to Deliverance, the Imperial Fists had sent them every suit of Mk VI Corvus pattern armor that they[the Fists] had salvaged. It also leaves an opening for the Imperial Fists to get Mk VI since they[the Fists] were still performing salvage operations and thus were likely to find more Mk VI suits.e

[recon0321]

So the IF didn't give them all their stock piles of MK VI....or did they and the IF returned to Mars and salvaged for more?

[Kol Saresk]

The IF gave the Raven Guard the one thousand suits they had already salvaged. As far as we know, that is all the Raven Guard get. Any more suits the Raven Guard would have to produce themselves, which is possible since their homeworld is basically a Forgeworld.

 

Meanwhile, the Imperial Fists that are still on Terra, are still performing salvage operations on Mars. There is potential for the Fists to gain access to the Mk VI by salvaging more suits.

[recon0321]

Gotcha so the RG had MK VI and what we could call MK V being as they took these from the dropsite massacre

[Kol Saresk]

Yes.

[recon0321]

Now what about the traitor legions? MK IV?

[Kol Saresk]

Now what about the traitor legions? MK IV?

Typically. Although we have seen at least three pattern variations: Sarum and Mantilla Pattern breathers(pictured in Betrayal) and the Balesnout Pattern Breather(described in Legion and possibly pictured on the cover).

 

However we do know the Alpha Legion is supposed to get Mk VI somewhere down the line thanks to the Forgeworld poster. And as mentioned the Word Bearers of the Furious Abyss had access to the Mk VI, but we don't know that is what they were actually wearing. But the likelihood is high since they were wearing brand new armor.

[recon0321]

I would assume those at isstvann V would have access to MK V even the traitors...also the ultramarines....what about the blood angels didn't they all go to signus prime? If do those marines would probably have had MK V....but I would think the loyalists that came to defend terra might have been re outfitted with new weapons and wargear....that only leaves a few legions I am mostly interested in the first legion since they missed the big battle of terra but then again maybe they were running low on supplies with their fight against the NL....hmmm a lot to figure