Devastator wargear

[marvmoogy]

HI guys, 

 

I'm sure I've asked this before but I can't find the thread now :(

 

I now have all the infantry models for my battle company and only need to build 5 assault marines and the devastators.  The question is, how should I arm the devs?

 

I was thinking of 1 with 2x LC and 2x ML and another with 2x PC and 2x MM and plonking them in a Rhino while the fist squad sit behind and Aegis.....

 

What do you think?

[Garath]

10 strong with 4 m.launchers

[marvmoogy]

for both?  That seems a little limiting...?

[Interrogator Stobz]

IMHO: Arm them with LCs and PCs, Devs are there to hurt the hard stuff from range. Use Rhinos sparingly/carefully as they are too fragile in 6th to really protect dudes and the points are well spent upgrading the weapons from MLs.

Save the AA capability for Helios/Hyperios/Mortis units that can do it properly, the MMs for Attack bikes and the MLs for Tacticals/Scouts/Typhoons/CMLs and general purpose units.

[captain sox]

Here's how I arm mine. I have 3 x 10 Man Dev Squads. The first is 3 ML, 1 LC. The second in 3 PC and 1 LC. The third is 4 heavy bolters.  Diversity. I use a Libby with Prescience on my ML/LC dev squad. 

[Brother Brucey]

I'm thinking of trying out two five-man squads: 2 ML+flak, 2 LC and 2 ML, 2 PC. The ML/LC squad gets a librarian (warlord) and hunts hard targets, the ML/PC squad is anti-horde and pretty good at blasting units that disembark from a wrecked transport (maybe blown up by the first squad).

 

ML/LCs hang back with the Warlord, ML/PCs are deployed a little bit further to help out my three to four tactical squads and outflanking Ravenwing.

[Gillyfish]

Missile Launchers used to be the 'go to' heavy weapon due to their versatility. That still holds true, but that means that they don't truly excel either. Of the weapon options, I think the one you shouldn't use (except perhaps on tacticals) is the multi-melta. It is far better to put it on attack bikes as they are more likely to be able to get close enough to use it to good effect.

 

Lascannon are your most reliable anti-tank weapon for Devastators, so I'd build two of those. I'd also build probably two plasma cannon as they can take out heavy infantry and do damage to hordes. I would then build four missile launchers for flexibility, allowing you to swap in and out those weapons. That all said, there is a place for the humble heavy bolter, although you may want to use that more in tactical squads than devastator squads. The reason for that is snap fire/reaction fire. You can move and still use it, albeit with reduced potency, but you would have a better chance of hitting than with the other weapons.

 

So the other question is - what have you armed your tactical squad heavies with? Are there weapons that are under or over-represented? 

[Master Avoghai]

On my lists, I now use a 4x LC in a 10 men squad.

The rationnal behind that is that I have my blast weapons (PC/ML) in my tactical.

The Devi often wait behind the aegis and is splitted unless it would give easy VP.

 

However my 2 devastator squads can have the following wargear :

Squad 9 :

4 ML

4 PC

Or 4LC

 

Squad 10 :

4 ML

4 HB

Or 4MM

 

As a consequence, I'm able to play a deva full of each weapon AND I also can play 2x4 ML.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Since I don't have 4 ascannons in my possession, my dev squads are setup like this:

1st Dev: 4 ML.

2nd Dev: 2 HB, 2 PC

 

First devastator is my go-to dev squad, because of the versatility, cheapness and lack of afforementioned 4 lascannons.

If I need a bit mor firepower then I add teh 2 HB, 2PC dev squad. They have the same range and same goal that is anti infantry. PC's deal with clusters and good armor saves and HB deal with dispersed formations and worse armor saves. I think it has soe versatility and goes under the opponents radar a bit when it comes to target priority.

 

All dev squads are at least 8 men strong to have some damage soaking power, but preferably they're in 10 men squad so they can be split into 5 men teams if need arises.

[marvmoogy]

In my 6 tactical squads I have 2 PCs, 1 MM, 1 ML, 1 LC and 1 HB - I wanted to get a range in there for different purposes.  The PCs are matched up to PGs, MG for the LC and the MM, and flamers for the ML and HB

[SvenONE]

I think if you're going to mix and match, do it like Luci does.  PC and HBs are your anti-horde, while ML/LC are your anti-tank, with some anti-horde in there.

 

Mixing PC and LC into the same squad kind of wastes 2 shots somewhere.  Plasma Cannons aren't going to do a whole lot against any AV13, not to mention that they can't snap fire if for some reason your only option to shoot a flier are the las cannons in the squad.

 

I know a lot of people run with the 10man 4xML (Flakk) loadout but I take minor issue with that, if you're that concerned with fliers to take that many ablative wounds, why not just take either a mortis and an ADL (or both) for a similar cost.

[IanSturrock]

Depends on the rest of your list, but for me, lascannons are the most likely bet, just because of their versatility and power. They're about as effective against flyers as flak missiles are, as well as being perfect for killing tanks and putting wounds on MCs.

[Isiah]

IanSturrock has it - it does depend on the rest of your list.

 

However making the assumption that your tac squads are geared for anti-infantry / light transport killing work (plasma gun or meltagun coupled with a missile launcher or plasma cannon) then the Devs need to be geared to target either more of the same, or, heavy armour or high toughness or flyer targets.

 

I'd also assume the latter. So in that case a mix of lascannons and missile launchers would be the way to go. I also like plasma cannons massed into Dev squads too - again mixed with missile launchers.

 

As you can see if points are tight I like missile launchers to dilute the cost.

 

I'm no lover of the HB on Devs. Put those on your Razorbacks or Typhoons ;).

 

Cheers

I

[Dark_Master]

I also like plasma cannons massed into Dev squads too - again mixed with missile launchers.

I

Me too, my only Dev squad is a 10 man with 4X Plasma Cannon.

 

I migrate the risk with a PFG bearing Librarian, with prescience.

 

DM

[plasmaspam]

My 5th Co 9th Squad runs 2x LC + 2x ML with Flakk; 10th is 2x HB + 2x PC.  Two nice firebases, one anti-armour/anti-air, the other anti-personnel.  My driving logic is to never mix ranges, the whole squad is 48", or 36" - never 24" (sorry MM's).

[MadMek83]

I don't mix match weapons in my Devs. I got 7 man Dev team with 4 missile launchers (my general utility with flakk's they're my swiss army knife. AT, AA and Horde control everything but Landraiders and Monoliths beware). I am planning next 7 / 10 man team with 4  Plasma cannons.

[Garath]

for both?  That seems a little limiting...?

 

 It may seem so, but here's  my reasoning .

 

 Devastators are in fact no scoring tactical marines that can have 4 heavy weapons .  In any combination ,a squad of 10 + weapons costs around 200 pts.

 

  Their price should be looked upon in comparison to the firepower ,flexibility and survivability .   

 

  Let's say I take a unit  with 4 lasscannons each .  They cost 230 pts.   Here's the thing:

 

  I can take a predator with Autocannon and Lascannon sponsons for 115.  Make that 2 predators for 230.  What does that give me?

 

   Apples and oranges - but the firepower is there.  I get 4 lascannons and 2 autocannons.   Sure, a lot of things can kill 2 predators - but they will not go down at the same time and the list of weapons that hurt them is much shorter then the one killing devastators, that's for sure.  Also not the predators can hit different targets at the same time and have move+fire.

 

   If I could get "ignore cover USR" for devastators, that would be a different story, but I woun't get into that.  I mean , yeah it's possible-  requires a Lvl 2 psyker and some luck.

 

 

   So that's why Devastators should have  missile launchers.  Reliable at AT (up to a point)  that can lay down 4 blasts too.  Flexible. 

 

  If I just want AT, then take 2 predators instead. 

[Isiah]

Devs have ablative wounds to safeguard those precious heavy weps.

 

A tank can be destroyed in a shot or a single hit in assault.

 

Cheers

I

[Master Avoghai]

Devs have ablative wounds to safeguard those precious heavy weps.

 

A tank can be destroyed in a shot or a single hit in assault.

 

Cheers

I

Ablative wounds can be removed by bolter shots... Tanks cannot...

 

There are pro and cons for both.

[Garath]

 Apples and Oranges, so it could be argued that we could put PFG between those predators to prevent those lucky hits. 

 

 PFG /ALD could be used to protect both  units-  but Devastators still die to bolter fire.  So that discussion is pointless . But if you ust want sheer firepower - Predators have 4 autocannon shots  more, in addition to lascannons.

 

  That's why I say M . launchers on devastators - flexible , can do a bit of both AT and anti infantry duty 

[Isiah]

You're totally right Garath is it like most things in 40K list building - apples and oranges. That's what makes it so interesting yes?

 

I'll be honest I've always looked upon Dev squads as a bit of a point sink, but coupling them with a Libby with Prescience and they're coming out of the shadows again. For me at any rate :yes:

 

O and subjective I know but, massed tanks look cooler - is that a valid argument :P ?

 

Cheers

I

[Garath]

You're totally right Garath is it like most things in 40K list building - apples and oranges. That's what makes it so interesting yes?

I'll be honest I've always looked upon Dev squads as a bit of a point sink, but coupling them with a Libby with Prescience and they're coming out of the shadows again. For me at any rate

O and subjective I know but, massed tanks look cooler - is that a valid argument ?

Cheers

I

And you are right. They (as in devastators) can be a point sink. No move+ fire really hurts the squad. In effect, they can only ever shoot things your opponent let's them shoot.

I know they can be deployed in high places with good LOS, but still - that depends on the table setup, who deplyos first etc. A really long list of things for a 200 unit.

And I couldn't agree more- massed tanks DO look cool! It's also a good tactical idea

[SvenONE]

One of my signature dev squads is a plasma cannon squad.  A prescience librarian allows them to re-roll everything, including gets hot AND the scatter (the 2D6 must also be re-rolled).

 

My 4x Las and 4x PC dev squads have had a lot of 1-2 punches since I started running them.  Pop a transport, bathe them in plasma!

[SvenONE]

  And you are right.  They (as in devastators) can be a point sink.  No move+ fire really hurts the squad.  In effect, they can only ever shoot things your opponent let's them shoot.  

  I know they can be deployed in high places with good LOS, but still - that depends on the table setup, who deplyos first etc.  A really long list of things for a 200 unit.

 

 And I couldn't agree more- massed tanks DO look cool!   It's also a good tactical idea

 

 

Terrain setup I think is without a doubt the biggest limitation on devastator squads.  I think when running devs you have to remember that placing terrain is almost as important as deploying your dev squads themselves.  Don't put terrain outside a deployment zone, and don't place objectives where you can't see them.  I can't argue that the dev squads are better thank tanks, again it's apples to oranges.  But I also don't have the same approach of ablative wounds, so I consider my dev squads to be vastly cheaper.  Our army is already priced high enough overall (bikes/terms slightly more) so I don't like spending points where I don't have to.

 

My line of thinking is that if your opponent is in a position to shoot or assault your lascannon devastators, then they're most likely able to be shot at themselves.

[Garath]

  In my area , you are not allowed to place terrain yourself at tournies.  You'll also raise  few eyebrows if you place terrain in your deployment on purpose. We also have a third party set up the terrain and roll to pick sides after it has been placed.

 

  All of that makes devastators let's say ,less then popular.

 

  At least until recently.  There's a guy that uses 3 squads of them , SM codex. You guessed it, he deploys with them a Tau buff commnder - all sitting on a Skyshield landing pad.

 

  They ignore every defensive mechanism in the game- barring high AV. And target saturation.   It's grotesque.

 

 

  PS- they still die to small arms fire , like they always have