Erebus & Kor Phaeron & Word Bearer HQ requirements

[ChainMachete]

I'm still trying to put together my initial 1000 points build (and up to 2000 points with allied Daemons) and whilst deciding if I could somehow work in the Word Bearers rite of war, sent the following questions to Forge World:

 

"1. Does Erebus count as a Chaplain for the purposes of fulfilling
the mandatory additional Chaplain HQ requirement for Word Bearers? He is
(or was once) their High Chaplain. Does he also count as a Diabolist
for the purposes of fulfulling the Word Bearers Rite Of War requirement,
since he's able to give units Dark Channelling?

2. Similarly does Kor Phaeron count as a Diabolist?"

 

I just got the following response back:

 

"1. Yes, he does count as a Diabolist and a Chaplain.

2. Yes, he does count as a Diabolist."

 

So looks like all I need is Erebus and a Praetor and I've got my rite of war requirement sorted. Here's my first attempt at a 1500 point list based on all this:

 

Erebus

Praetor (Paragon Blade)

2 Laser Destroyer Rapiers

15 Tacticals (sergeant has artificer armour, power axe and meta bombs)

15 Tacticals (sergeant has artificer armour and power fist)

5 Heavy Support (Missile Launchers)

Herald of Khorne (Juggernaut, locus of fury and greater reward)

14 Flesh Hounds

12 Daemonettes

 

Total points cost is 1497. I could swap the 12 Daemonettes for 11 Bloodletters (now 1499), but think the Daemonettes are probably better against everything other than a MEQ heavy legion army. I've got plenty of Daemons already, so can swap in almost anything here.

 

1500 seems to the standard points value in my gaming group, so this looks like a good way of getting to this points level without having to buy too much stuff straight away.

 

Now I just need to buy Erebus, one more Rapier, some Word Bearer shoulder pads and some holstered Phobos patten bolt pistols (already bought, but haven't built the rest of the legion models).

 

Any suggestions or thoughts are most welcome.

 

 

 

[Vardus]

Just a quick note, Erebus has the Master of the Legion rule and covers you for taking a RoW.

[hisdudeness]

My answer would be does book tell us that they count for either? Without a statement saying they do, then they don't.

[jeremy1391]

To take a rite of war you need a praetor or a character who has master of the legion (I think that's what it's called) to unlock a rite of war, so if Erebus meets the requirements (unlock ROW character, chaplain, diabolist) then as written I would say you are fine.

[Vardus]

My answer would be does book tell us that they count for either? Without a statement saying they do, then they don't.

 

Op says that he has had a response from FW to say they do, so now we just need it in a FAQ & errata!

 

So lets assume that they do count as the Op says;

 

1) both Erebus and Kor Phaeron allow for the taking of RoWs

 

2) both Erebus and Kor Phaeron cover the Diabolist limitation of the Word Bearers Unique RoW

 

3) the question is now whether Erebus covers the Charismatic Leadership rule or do you still need a Centurion or a Chaplain Consul or can you take another HQ choice?

 

edit: must learn to type properly!

[Kol Saresk]

Well Erebus does have access to Burning Lore. Actually, its one of his basic rules. Only Praetors, Diabolists, Centurions and Chaplains have access to Burning Lore. So somewhere, he counts as one of the above. It is the same for Kor Phaeron.

 

Erebus' title is "High Chaplain" so I'm willing to bet that he is a Chaplain, at least.

 

If Erebus is the Warlord, he has access to dark Channeling. Dark Channeling can only be taken by a Diabolist.

 

Kor Phaeron has the same stipulation. So honestly, it does look pretty plainly said that Erebus fulfills the qualifications for a Diabolist and a Chaplain and Kor Phaeron fulfills it for being a Diabolist, but I'd also say that the Diabolist condition is dependent on whether or not they are the Warlords.

 

But Forgeworld does say a blanket yes to being Diabolists. And there is a fulfillment of the qualifications, so maybe my conditional yes is the wrong while the blanket yes is right.

[ChainMachete]

My answer would be does book tell us that they count for either? Without a statement saying they do, then they don't.

My original question and the answer I received were cut & pasted directly from the emails to and from Forge World themselves.

 

At the same time I also asked what paint scheme they used for their Word Bearer models. If anyone is interested I can post that as well. Surprisingly they don't just use Games Workshop paints.

[hisdudeness]

But sadly emails are not rules, no matter where they come from.

 

I would be hesitant about building a (expensive) Forgeworld list off of an email.

[Kol Saresk]

But sadly emails are not rules, no matter where they come from.

 

I would be hesitant about building a (expensive) Forgeworld list off of an email.

 

 

Well Erebus does have access to Burning Lore. Actually, its one of his basic rules. Only Praetors, Diabolists, Centurions and Chaplains have access to Burning Lore. So somewhere, he counts as one of the above. It is the same for Kor Phaeron.

 

Erebus' title is "High Chaplain" so I'm willing to bet that he is a Chaplain, at least.

 

If Erebus is the Warlord, he has access to dark Channeling. Dark Channeling can only be taken by a Diabolist.

 

Kor Phaeron has the same stipulation. So honestly, it does look pretty plainly said that Erebus fulfills the qualifications for a Diabolist and a Chaplain and Kor Phaeron fulfills it for being a Diabolist, but I'd also say that the Diabolist condition is dependent on whether or not they are the Warlords.

 

But Forgeworld does say a blanket yes to being Diabolists. And there is a fulfillment of the qualifications, so maybe my conditional yes is the wrong while the blanket yes is right.

Hey guys! I'm the chopped liver!

[depthcharge12]

 

But sadly emails are not rules, no matter where they come from.I would be hesitant about building a (expensive) Forgeworld list off of an email.

  

Well Erebus does have access to Burning Lore. Actually, its one of his basic rules. Only Praetors, Diabolists, Centurions and Chaplains have access to Burning Lore. So somewhere, he counts as one of the above. It is the same for Kor Phaeron.Erebus' title is "High Chaplain" so I'm willing to bet that he is a Chaplain, at least.If Erebus is the Warlord, he has access to dark Channeling. Dark Channeling can only be taken by a Diabolist.Kor Phaeron has the same stipulation. So honestly, it does look pretty plainly said that Erebus fulfills the qualifications for a Diabolist and a Chaplain and Kor Phaeron fulfills it for being a Diabolist, but I'd also say that the Diabolist condition is dependent on whether or not they are the Warlords.But Forgeworld does say a blanket yes to being Diabolists. And there is a fulfillment of the qualifications, so maybe my conditional yes is the wrong while the blanket yes is right.

Hey guys! I'm the chopped liver!

 

 

You can't be chopped liver.

 

 

I already took yours and sold it for some mkIII....

 

Did I say that out loud?!

[Kol Saresk]

Actually, I took a note from Alpharius and had a decoy liver implanted. I believe the donor card said it was from Alaska.

[depthcharge12]

Actually, I took a note from Alpharius and had a decoy liver implanted. I believe the donor card said it was from Alaska.

 

Sonhuva....

 

 

Is that the sound of 105mm in the background?

[ChainMachete]

But sadly emails are not rules, no matter where they come from.

 

I would be hesitant about building a (expensive) Forgeworld list off of an email.

The rite of war is just icing on the cake. The key thing I want is to have a daemon heavy Word Bearers army and I can get that with just Kor Phaeron and a basic chaplain without having to show anyone an email from Forge World customer services. And I really like the Kor Phaeron model.

 

Not sure the Word Bearers rite of war is massively useful for a pure 30k game anyway, because of the one heavy limit (plus the extra heavy I get from the daemons of course). But against a lot of 40k armies, causing instant death on a perils of the warp is absolutely gold.

 

So I'll just see how it goes in my gaming group. As long as I don't try anything too evil, I can't see anyone complaining. Incidentally, the first evil thing that comes to mind is Erebus (for the rite of war, chaplain & diabolist tax), a Moritat (with twin plasma pistols) plus an allied Lord of Change for presience. You could quite easily get 30-40 plasma shots off with that if you could keep the Moritat alive.

[Moonstalker]

 

But sadly emails are not rules, no matter where they come from.

 

I would be hesitant about building a (expensive) Forgeworld list off of an email.

The rite of war is just icing on the cake. The key thing I want is to have a daemon heavy Word Bearers army and I can get that with just Kor Phaeron and a basic chaplain without having to show anyone an email from Forge World customer services. And I really like the Kor Phaeron model.

 

Not sure the Word Bearers rite of war is massively useful for a pure 30k game anyway, because of the one heavy limit (plus the extra heavy I get from the daemons of course). But against a lot of 40k armies, causing instant death on a perils of the warp is absolutely gold.

 

So I'll just see how it goes in my gaming group. As long as I don't try anything too evil, I can't see anyone complaining. Incidentally, the first evil thing that comes to mind is Erebus (for the rite of war, chaplain & diabolist tax), a Moritat (with twin plasma pistols) plus an allied Lord of Change for presience. You could quite easily get 30-40 plasma shots off with that if you could keep the Moritat alive.

 

Won't work as you want it to.

 

1. Moritat may never be taken as a compulsory choice.  So it may not fulfill your first compulsory HQ.

2. Per Charismatic Leadership, the Chaplain/Centurion must be a SECOND Compulsory HQ choice.  Any Word Bearers army has 2 compulsory HQs, one Chaplain/Centurion and one anything-else-that-is-not-a-Moritat.

3. Per the FAQ, a Moritat cannot benefit from... basically anything.  And certainly not prescience.

 

Erebus, as a Diabolist and a Chaplain, can fulfill the Word Bearers' RoW requirement for a second Compulsory HQ that is a Chaplain and for any HQ to be a Diabolist.  He does not also fulfill your army's first compulsory HQ in such away that you can take a Moritat as the second.  To take a Moritat and Erebus, you will need a 3rd HQ for the detachment.  Or more accurately, the Moritat could only be the third HQ, as he cannot be taken for any compulsory choice.

[ChainMachete]

 

 

But sadly emails are not rules, no matter where they come from.

 

I would be hesitant about building a (expensive) Forgeworld list off of an email.

The rite of war is just icing on the cake. The key thing I want is to have a daemon heavy Word Bearers army and I can get that with just Kor Phaeron and a basic chaplain without having to show anyone an email from Forge World customer services. And I really like the Kor Phaeron model.

 

Not sure the Word Bearers rite of war is massively useful for a pure 30k game anyway, because of the one heavy limit (plus the extra heavy I get from the daemons of course). But against a lot of 40k armies, causing instant death on a perils of the warp is absolutely gold.

 

So I'll just see how it goes in my gaming group. As long as I don't try anything too evil, I can't see anyone complaining. Incidentally, the first evil thing that comes to mind is Erebus (for the rite of war, chaplain & diabolist tax), a Moritat (with twin plasma pistols) plus an allied Lord of Change for presience. You could quite easily get 30-40 plasma shots off with that if you could keep the Moritat alive.

 

Won't work as you want it to.

 

1. Moritat may never be taken as a compulsory choice.  So it may not fulfill your first compulsory HQ.

2. Per Charismatic Leadership, the Chaplain/Centurion must be a SECOND Compulsory HQ choice.  Any Word Bearers army has 2 compulsory HQs, one Chaplain/Centurion and one anything-else-that-is-not-a-Moritat.

3. Per the FAQ, a Moritat cannot benefit from... basically anything.  And certainly not prescience.

 

Erebus, as a Diabolist and a Chaplain, can fulfill the Word Bearers' RoW requirement for a second Compulsory HQ that is a Chaplain and for any HQ to be a Diabolist.  He does not also fulfill your army's first compulsory HQ in such away that you can take a Moritat as the second.  To take a Moritat and Erebus, you will need a 3rd HQ for the detachment.  Or more accurately, the Moritat could only be the third HQ, as he cannot be taken for any compulsory choice.

 

Yes, hadn't read that bit of the FAQ yet. Still just going through the two Heresy books. I hadn't seriously considered adding a Moritat to my army anyway; and avoiding those sort of combos are one of the reasons I want a 30k army.

 

Troops, daemons and when there's models for them, Gal Vorbak, will be the focus of my army.