Could a centurion double as a contemptor dreadnought?

[Aegnor]

ie. the Vhinger field.

 

If you really wanted to use a Centurion model as a proxy for a Contemptor, then you could do a couple of things to make it a better proxy. The height and base size difference are the main problems - you could make the model a scenic base that made it taller by the correct margin and on the right size base.

[IndigoJack]

Personally, I would prefer you didn't. I don't mind the proxy, but I'd prefer a model that's at least closer in scale.

 

(actually, IIRC, you're allowed to go up one size, but not down. Apparently, some people like to put 25mm characters on 40mm bases for dramatic effect, in spite of the inherent disadvantage)

 

I'd like to point out that there are advantages for larger bases as well, particularly when it comes to auras (bigger base = bigger aura).

[Disruptor_fe404]

Base size and height are pretty different. One-off proxy for a game? Sure.

 

But after a handful of games, it:

 

"gets very old", believe me.

[EPK]

Thought occurred to me - why don't you just score a cheap plastic dread off ebay or somewhere, do a little converting, and slap it onto a slightly elevated scenic base to make up the height difference.

 

Here is another way to make a basic plastic dread a little taller - http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?146205-Praetors-of-Calth-%96-Pre-Heresy-Ultramarines&p=2981612&viewfull=1#post2981612

[Aleax]

As usual, it depends of your gaming group. If you are short on the money, and your group don't mind or are short on the money as well, well there's no problem, everyone should agree. Now if you want to battle against strangers, such as in the local GW shop, this can be tricky, some might agree some not, and for being safe, you should better not come with a list with a contemptor, unless you ask your GW shop/players there before*. Captain obvious here, but hope this helps.

 

Cheers.

 

* edit = and they do agree

[march10k]

Isiah,

 

The rule does assume current models. It doesn't say to use the use the base that "was" supplied with the model, it says to use the base that "is" supplied with the model, which presupposes that the model itself is still being supplied. And the only terminator models being supplied are on 40mm bases. So, no, it would not take a house rule to require 40mm bases, it would take a house rule to allow a nonstandard size. That said, they should be equally as acceptable in casual play as, say, a forgeworld flier (like a thunderbolt fighter in a non-IG imperial army...it makes as much sense as IG having them, it's not like the navy is subordinate to the Guard!)

 

The reason that I say the "expense" excuse is unbelievable is that a bag of bases costs less than any single model I can think of, let alone a box of plastic...should be about as much as a couple pots of paint, and less than a single quality paint brush. If you can't afford that, then you can't afford the hobby in the first place!

[Isiah]

The rule does assume current models. It doesn't say to use the use the base that "was" supplied with the model, it says to use the base that "is" supplied with the model, which presupposes that the model itself is still being supplied.

 

 

Interesting, but for clarity march, the rulebook says this:

 

"The rules in this book assume that models are mounted on the base they are supplied with."

 

 

 

Anyway. So, provided your models are indeed on the bases that they are supplied with (an obvious auto pass statement on models already on bases by the way) - then they are legal - no matter what age they were produced.

 

The rule is silly and for sure needs tightening. I'm all for standardisation of various model types onto certain bases sizes, but that is never stated explicitly.

 

GW are free to presume all they like about the ideal age status of the models that should be played. But if this is important enough to have real gameplay implications then it needs to be explicitly stated. We are never told we must only use current models - if we are, I haven't found that particular rule yet.

[march10k]

I think we're close to agreement here. Only a fool would believe that multiple base sizes for the same unit is within GW's intent. At the same time, they could do more to explicitly state that old (insert unit here) models should be rebased on the same size bases as new models representing the same unit type.

Nevertheless, metal terminators with 25mm bases are no longer supplied, therefore the rule in question does not apply to them! You can't mix tenses here and then declare them the same. Metal terminators were supplied with 25mm bases. But since they are not supplied at all today, you cannot say that they are supplied ("supplied"...as in provided to the consumer, in contrast to "equipped," as in mounted on) with 25mm bases...the only terminators that are supplied...are supplied with 40mm bases.

Even if you reject my line of reasoning based on the use of the present tense (in my mind, the rules writer should assume that you have already purchased the model, meaning that the past tense is more natural, giving the use of the present tense added meaning), can you reasonably insist that GW intends that multiple bases sizes for the same unit be the standard?

[elmo]

As a work around you can always mount the smaller base on top of the larger current base as this also has the added bonus of increasing the old terminator models height to something closer to the new one.

 

Off topic but just a thought ;)

[Raztalin]

Hi was wondering could a centurion proxy as a contemptor dreadnought?

 

I'd let you use a Red Bull can or similar if you wanted to proxy it ... end of the day its up to your opponent; my personal take is as long as i know what it is and i can still draw an almost identical line of sight i couldn't care less - Its the fun of the game I'm playing for after all!!  I am likely in the minority though.  But in your example; the sizes are well off, as others have stated if you don't attempt to fulfill the size matching it just becomes difficult to play against for more than a few games.  But by mounting it on a large stone could work ;)

[captain sox]

To me this is fascinating. Base size this, base size that.... who cares really. Let's just get together and play. Roll some dice, kill each others models and have a beer or two doing it. I played a few tournaments, never won a single game, didn't care.

 

I'm in a mood today... all my posts are bleah! Where's my catnip? maybe change avatar to Grumpy Cat

[march10k]

Sox,

I couldn't agree more, it's a small issue, and I would never refuse to play against 25mm-based termies in a casual game. I'm only refuting the claim that the rules allow it, and saying that you can't reasonably have both 25mm and 40mm bases for the same unit in organized competitive play. I'm also saying that it's ridiculous in a hobby where a playable army can cost upwards of $1000 that $5 for a bag of 5 40mm round bases is "too expensive." If you can't afford $5 to appease the rules-Nazis (and make your army tourney/league-playable), then you really can't afford this hobby at all.

On the other hand, I might be inclined to field two 25mm models and three 40mm models in the same squad...just to annoy people.

[Onisuzume]

I'd be inclined to use my 25mm base Ork Dreadnought, just for the kick of it.

Yeah, the cardboard one from the 2nd edition starter set.

Its a legal citadel miniatures model.

Back onto topic, however, I'd say that a centurion is too small it believably double as a contemptor. Maybe as a Cataphractii terminator, but not much else.

[captain sox]

March, I totally agree with you on what you posted above. Competitive play is totally different. If you go into it knowing it's competitive, or a tournament where all the rules are enforced, then by all means follow the rules. I've only played in 2 tournaments in my 6 years of being in this hobby, and to be honest, I didn't enjoy them. Part of the problem I found was it was the "old boys club" guys who have been in it from the beginning win all the painting, army building and general awards... whether they really were or not. New players really had a hard time. It seems all we were there for was to pay our fees and be ignored.

I also agree that if terminators are required to be on a 40mm base, then models representing them should be 40mm bases, Dreads 60mm bases etc.

I've had my nip, took a long nap and I feel better...