writers over-using phrasing

[helterskelter]

On a re-read of prospero burns, I notice mr. Abnett makes repeated use of "wet leopard" in context of a way a member of the vlka fenryka delivers a line.

does any other author over-use bits of language like this?

does it bother my fellow brothers and sisters as much as me?

[Chaeron]

There's something familiar about those phrases that I quite like - McNeill's allusion to the heart "beating a tattoo" against the chest is one.

It’s more frustrating when the same adjective is used a sentence or two later within the same paragraph – by any writer.

 

[Ammonius]

"Wet Leopard Growl"

That one phrase is the one negative thing I think of when someone asks about Prospero Burns. However, no one's perfect. So I just take it as proof that Mr. Abnett hasn't been replaced by a robot, and carry on.

I find it useful to say "Nekromant Invidiosa!" out loud in my best Chaos Titan voice every time after the first that I re-read "wet leopard growl"

[Frosco Toppings]

It annoys me that scenes of slaughter and carnage are always likened to a charnel house. Why, though? On a battlefield there would be bodies and bits of bodies strewn around whereas in a charnel house the bodies would more likely be stacked and aligned.

[Veteran Sergeant]

I think one word that often pops up and makes me chuckle every time is "cordite" in reference to the smells of a battlefield/gunpowder.

 

Cordite was a very specific kind of propellant that was manufactured in the late 19th, early 20th centuries (named after its cord-like appearance).  This is one of the most hackneyed and lazy references that a lot of authors use solely becuase they've seen it used by other authors. At some point, perhaps a novel set in early 20th century British colonial Africa might have made proper use of the term in describing a battlefield that smelled of cordite (which did have a distinctly smell from black powder and modern smokeless powders as I understand).

 

Amusingly enough, nobody's really sure where the use of this term came from. But it's a cardinal sin in writing action stories. 

[A D-B]

I think one word that often pops up and makes me chuckle every time is "cordite" in reference to the smells of a battlefield/gunpowder.

 

Cordite was a very specific kind of propellant that was manufactured in the late 19th, early 20th centuries (named after its cord-like appearance).  This is one of the most hackneyed and lazy references that a lot of authors use solely becuase they've seen it used by other authors. At some point, perhaps a novel set in early 20th century British colonial Africa might have made proper use of the term in describing a battlefield that smelled of cordite (which did have a distinctly smell from black powder and modern smokeless powders as I understand).

 

Amusingly enough, nobody's really sure where the use of this term came from. But it's a cardinal sin in writing action stories. 

 

I don't think I've used "cordite" (I prefer the faux-future-chemical compoundy/powdery sound of "fyceline" and the gritty, archaic, earthy feel of "gunsmoke") but in fairness to whoever does use it, 40K tech is closer in theme and feel to an early 20th century colonial British setting than anything with modern firearms. So it wouldn't rip me out of the moment, where something like a "laser target designator" would, if you get me.

 

As usual, though, I've nabbed another one of your insights into a Word.doc as food for thought, Vet. With muchos gratitude.

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

Depends on context and how critical you are as a reader. I feel like punching myself in the danglies if I so much as repeat an uncommon word or phrase in the same couple of pages and it doesn't serve a direct thematic purpose. So when I see it done without such purpose, or serving such a purpose poorly, I react negatively.

 

"Wet leopard growl," in its various instances, might have gone over better were it not such a viscerally specific phrase in the first place. Every time I see it in the text, it feels like getting a torn nail caught on a tablecloth. I get distracted from whatever I was doing and the pretty thing in front of me gets all disheveled.

 

Cliches are similar; 40k novels tend to overflow with them. Using a cliche is shorthand for getting your point across instead of coming up with a new (or simply your own) way to get such a point across to the reader, and as Frosco Toppings pointed out, are not always as apt as they seem when first chosen. I think our culture sort of trains people to use cliches and buzzwords and catchphrases instead of coming up with descriptive combinations of the necessary words organically from the mind; it lends itself to superficially informative  discussions with no depth of content or examination of coherency. But that's getting into my fringe political paranoia, and we are principally discussing the writing surrounding a fictional dystopia, not a real one.

 

In any case, yeah, either the use of cliches or the use of an author's personal cliches (repeated words or phrases, either by design or lack of critical reading) gets more and more grating the more carefully you read a piece. Duh.

 

EDIT: I forgot to elucidate on "wet leopard growls." Whoops.

 

[Sothalor]

Fifteen Hours was probably the worst for me, with "new fish" being tossed about by EVERYBODY when addressing the protagonist, MULTIPLE times EVERY SINGLE FRICKIN' CONVERSATION.

 

I just casually flipped open my copy. It opened to page 184, and "new fish" appears four times on that ONE page in two separate conversations.

[Chaplain ChonkE]

ADB: Did the guys at the BL have a contest once to see who could get the most uses of the word "brackish" past the editors in a series of novels a while back? I have a suspicion sometimes at those pub *ahem* I mean "IP" meetings (I semi-joke of course) that you guys pick a word of the day and run with it.....

All writers struggle to be original and fresh in their description and style but sometimes it is difficult to find a different way to describe something or perhaps it is the vision firmly locked in their imagination. While it may bother a reader to hear that description of the "wet leopard growl" it was a marked change from the 10k variations on lupine growls that came before it. I personally thought it gave a much more guttural and predatory voice to the Space Wolves but was the description overused? Perhaps but it never seemed to bother me, the editors or the 180thousandbajillionthymillion people who bought the book and gave it good reviews even with kitty hairballs being hawked a'plenty.

Writing a novel isnt easy work. Trying to be descriptive, fresh and original while transmitting your ideas/vision across on every page (particularly in serials or series) is a chore and repetition can be expected at times particularly when deadlines are involved. Dominatus, I will agree that sometimes the editing feels a bit dodgy but I dont find it any different than the quality of any other published materials out there. I've rarely seen a published long novel that is mistake free and there is always that incorrect tense or modifier, misspelling or something but it doesnt matter does it? It is the realm of lexmechanics and if the correct meaning is translated then the communication is good. Besides, printers can be at fault for mistakes as often (if not moreso) than the authors and editors; many of those small mistakes are basic transcription errors which have been going on in print long before auto-correct and cellphones.

[Karthak]

Is there a single prominent Astartes who doesn't get described as having "patrician" features? Because by Russ, it feels like that word is damn near everywhere.

[Knight of the Raven]

It's not phrasing, but in the Tome of Fire trilogy, each space marine faction seemed to have a huge member. Baken, the Marine Malevolent, the Dragon Warrior...

[Conn Eremon]

Wasn't that something that cropped up elsewhere quite a bit as well for a while? McNeill's Ultramarines is another example. I remember it becoming a joke that it was a longstanding Astartes tradition to partner promising officers with an abnormally sized battle-brother. Bonus points if one or the other has a bad sense of humor.

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

I've noticed a difference between shared-universe, franchise-tied fiction in general and other works I read in terms of editing. But yes, no one is perfect and sometimes the lexmechanics of all departments deserve floggings and gruel reductions for their laxity.

It's not phrasing, but in the Tome of Fire trilogy, each space marine faction seemed to have a huge member. Baken, the Marine Malevolent, the Dragon Warrior...

I must say, as it had been quite some time since I read those novels, I had to reread that a few times before I remembered a) who Baken was and b ) quite how I had been misreading that sentence.

[JeffJedi]

It's like the editors used a spell checker to replace "water" with "brackish water."

 

And wet leopard growl? Can't they once growl like a wolf? They should have been named the Wet Leopards!

[Darrell]

On a re-read of prospero burns, I notice mr. Abnett makes repeated use of "wet leopard" in context of a way a member of the vlka fenryka delivers a line.

does any other author over-use bits of language like this?

does it bother my fellow brothers and sisters as much as me?

I haven't read any 40K novels in a while, but repeated use of a phrase happens with authors outside Black Library. Robert E. Howard was a big fan of describing Conan as "moving like a panther" and various iterations of the phrase. He also fought "like a cornered tiger" on several occasions. Lovecraft frequently described architecture as "cyclopean" and "non-Euclidean".

 

I imagine such words and phrases are recycled because the author likes the imagery and, consciously or otherwise, reuses it because they think it's cool. They might consider it something of a catch phrase for their characters, or their signature as a writer.

 

It happens for a lot of reasons, I imagine, and to a lot of writers. If the story is good enough, or the characters are interesting enough, I don't mind seeing a phrase reappear in the same story. No work is going to be perfect, and I consider those recycled phrases a relatively small flaw in the bigger scheme of things. In a bad story with boring characters, though, such things just become more fuel to the fire.

[A D-B]

 

On a re-read of prospero burns, I notice mr. Abnett makes repeated use of "wet leopard" in context of a way a member of the vlka fenryka delivers a line.

does any other author over-use bits of language like this?

does it bother my fellow brothers and sisters as much as me?

I haven't read any 40K novels in a while, but repeated use of a phrase happens with authors outside Black Library. Robert E. Howard was a big fan of describing Conan as "moving like a panther" and various iterations of the phrase. He also fought "like a cornered tiger" on several occasions. Lovecraft frequently described architecture as "cyclopean" and "non-Euclidean".

 

 

As a Howard and Lovecraft fan, I smirked to the max. So very true, on all counts.

[Redtoof]

It's not phrasing, but in the Tome of Fire trilogy, each space marine faction seemed to have a huge member. Baken, the Marine Malevolent, the Dragon Warrior...

 

I definitely got the wrong meaning of that on the first read! Missed out the word 'faction'! Something for Fulgrim's boys, that one...

 

I don't often pick up on stuff like this, but I did notice the 'wet leopard' thing. It seemed oddly specific.

[Warsmith Aznable]

I think it's about trying to get across a specific feel, like with the examples of Howard and Lovecraft. Wanting to make specific kinds allusions to get that feel across will limit your choices, otherwise Conan is going to end up moving like ever stranger animals the further into a series he goes. With Prospero Burns, the whole "wet leopard growl" thing seems kind of weird in its repetition, but I felt like I knew exactly what that sounded like. In that respect it works, and self-conscious attempts to construct unique descriptions will probably end up being much more strange and distracting in the long run.

[Deus Imperator Vult]

As a writer, or atleast a neophyte, it doesn't feel right critiquing published authors works BUT I do know what you mean there are a couple of phrases I've come across that have ripped me out of the moment. The most recent one I can think of is Wrath of Iron in the space of 25 pages two seperate marines were described as 'being a grim prospect' because of how they are armed. I like 'cordite' and 'charnal house' I know they aren't entirely accurate but I do feel they create a definite feeling.

[Warsmith Aznable]

As a writer, or atleast a neophyte, it doesn't feel right critiquing published authors works

As a reader you've every right to your opinion on something you've read.

As writers ourselves I guess we have to guard our own egos, because they can always ask to compare published work...

[fenhold]

Plasteel and rockcrete, plasteel and rockcrete, plasteel and rockcrete, plasteel and rockcrete, plasteel and rockcrete, plasteel and rockcrete, plasteel and rockcrete, plasteel and rockcrete, plasteel and rockcrete, plasteel and rockcrete...........................................

[No Foes Remain]

Plasteel and rockcrete have been around for a few years and are in-universe items rather than phrases used by authors to describe something.

 

 

For me I haven't (until seeing this thread now) noticed any phrases over-repeating themselves, personally charnel house gives a good point of refference as to what the scene actually looks like.

[Daevyll]

What an excellent thread.

 

My contribution:  the turn of phrase '[he] felt his choler rise' 

 

Seriously, how much choler can rise in the space of a single novel?

[SteelPaladin]

Active power armor making your teeth itch.

I do love the imagery this evokes, but I don't want to hear it every time Power Armor is described.

[Chaplain ChonkE]

Plasteel and rockcrete go beyond 40k into other scifi realms. Pretty common actually. I think Engineer Scott even tried peddling some to the plastics guy in the Star Trek: Save the Whale movie.

 

Crom! Darrell and Max nailed it about feel and conveying the imagery across to the reader and writers sometimes being handcuffed.

 

Deus, it is okay to criticize as long as you have good reason to and not be a jerkface in the process. Heck, they have college/Uni classes about "Criticism" and ways to analyze and discuss a piece of work. Writers should feel flattered that people are taking the time to sit down and analyze their work; it shows interest in their creative product and can possibly help that writer turn out a better product.