I need some guidance, ForgeWorld

[Armond]

Ok, I am looking to make a FW purchase for some 30k stuff for my future Night Lords.  I need some recommendations...
 
I will have roughly $400 to spend.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285900-the-dark-of-night/

 

that is a link to my fluff topic which goes into some detail of how my Company would be composed.  Based on that and what is known from the books, what should be initial purchases.  If you see something wrong with what I believe should be the composition of my Company, please let me know.  I am very open to intelligent reason, and what to do the VIII Legion justice when I take them on.  Obviously I cannot purchase everything I need, but a starting point is nice.

BTW, I have no vehicles listed at all or anything beyond troops.  So if there is something else that would be a good purchase, let me know.  I do own an unopened Space Marine Land Raider and a box of CSM Raptors(obviously they won't have the right Mark armours, but I am not above converting). 

 

Also, can someone tell me how long it usually takes for FW to ship something to a U.S. address, specifically Texas?

[Noserenda]

As a rough guide id head towards 2 Troops and an HQ, as Terror Troops arent released yet id hit up 4-6 Packs of Breachers, Mk3 pads for them and some Characters and Raptors to taste. You can then mix in some Raptor parts to the breachers and Characters too! The Weapon sets are pretty solid investments too for Sergeants and HQs alike. You might want to think about getting the Mk4 Tactical Deal and the separate boarding upgrade pack, though Mk3 does work well for the Night Lords!

You could get some Land Raider doors for your Land Raider, they are always a solid choice in the list and could Taxi your Cataphracts around. The Raptor bits id mix in with FW Raptors and your other troops for variety.

Id also try to hit the free shipping minimum for your country too as it saves a lot of money!

Fw Postage can be random but is usually extremely quick, a couple of days to the Uk and ive heard the US isnt too far behind.

Hope that helps brother! And welcome to the winning side ;)

[Armond]

First off, thanks for the reply. Second I have some questions.

 

I assume Breachers counts as Troop Choices? I could go with a MkIII deal and separate boarding upgrade pack! That way I would have twenty suits and be able to convert half to Breachers and the other half as Terror Squads via conversion. Or of course I could simply do as you said, all Breachers for now. Which would be two unit of them which is what my Company employs.

 

For Raptors I was thinking of getting a set of them and then using maybe an Assault Squad to mix it up a bit. I figured it would give some character to an already characterful unit.

 

For the Land Raider, is there a specific kit or anything, or is there a specific pattern this Land Raider should be? I will definitely go for doors if I can afford it all. If anything I can always convert things as needed. I may just forget the doors for now and just do some modelling of my own design, some ideas have popped into my head.

 

Thoughts on a Contemptor Dread or anything?

 

So right now I am looking at this for priorities:

 

20ish Breachers

10ish Raptors

HQ

Special Weapons set for conversions and champs/sergeants

Terminators

[Noserenda]

No worries mate, we all have to start somewhere :)

Yup, Breachers are troops, I figured itd be worth nailing those down until the Terror squads are released. Mixing assault squads id usually recommend but mixes of jump packs really drives me nuts :D Any and all Land Raider patterns were in use during the Heresy so anything you can think of really, FW doors are just easy!

Contemptors are great fun to play with, building and on the table, the list I came up with came close to your budget, I can definitely recommend Cataphracts though, they are very nice :D

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

How about a Stormeagle Gunship? something like...

http://gmmstudios.blogspot.com/2012/12/121012-night-lords.html

[Armond]

Question about the Land Raiders. Since I already have a Land Raider basic box, is there a way to purchase a kit to make one of the other pattern Land Raiders? Or do I have to purchase the entire thing plastic kit/resin kit? Also, recommended pattern?

 

Also thoughts on this. I know Terror Squads have not been released. But I am thinking about converting a unit of 10. I would use the Cataphractii Chain Axes to convert into Glaives to do it. But now that I read this, I don't even know if they troop choices to begin with...

 

Perhaps two units of 10 Breachers(Mk III), a unit of Raptors, a unit of Cataphractii Termies, and characters/weapon choices to kit Commanders/Sergeants/Characters out.

 

Or instead of two units of Breachers, just one unit of 10 and then a unit of 10 tactical squad?

 

But anyway, ran thru ForgeWorld web page, this is what I have in the cart as of right now.

 

10-man Breacher Squad

-Mk III Night Lords Shoulder pads

 

10-man Tactical Squad(Mk IV)

-Umbra Pattern Bolters pack

-Mk IV Night Lords Shoulder pads

 

5-man Cataphractii Terminator Squad

-Cataphractii Special Weapons kit

 

5-man Raptor Squad

 

Land Raider Doors

 

If I spend 14.5 more quid, I don't have to pay shipping because I reach the 250.00 limit. Thoughts?

[Moonstalker]

That squad of Cataphractii will combo well with a Land Raider, I'd definitely include that whatever else you grab since you've got that LR already.  As Patterns go, your only real option is going to be a Phobos (standard lascannons/heavy bolter loadout).  The Achilles only has 6 transport capacity and the Proteus doesn't have Assault Vehicle, besides just being visually different/different kits.  Sadly, there aren't any upgrade kits out there, if you did want to go for a Proteus or Achilles you either have to buy it whole from FW or scratchbuild it.  Crusader and Redeemer patterns are not available.

 

In the fluff, you list your terror squads as being 15-20 men strong.  They can actually only be 5-10 man.  To field 4 squads of them, you will need to use the NL RoW, which will require a minimum of 3 Terror Squads to fulfill your troop choices.  Without the RoW, they're Elites choices.  So, I'll second the Breacher Squads as being a good starting point for your troops.  RoW don't really start to make sense till you're playing around 2k points.  Glaives are only available to the sergeants.

 

Without upgrades/wargear, you're looking at just under 900 points for 5 terminators, 20 breachers, and a Land Raider Phobos.  With some reasonable upgrades (Armored Ceramite for the Land Raider, maybe power fists for the Terminators, a couple meltaguns in each breacher squad, etc) you're talking about a 1-1.1k list, but it still needs an HQ.  I would recommend your Primus Medicae or Legion Champion as a starter HQ, and you might figure on spending 100-125 points on that (depending on wargear).

 

I like the Contemptor-Mortis, and I think it would be good for further filling out your force with a little anti-air and a little more anti-tank.  I like the Dual Lascannon loadout, but the Kheres and Autocannon loadouts are both good in their own ways.  With this and your HQ, you should have a decently put together 1.5k list you could play with, at or around 400 USD.

 

4x Breacher Squad packs: $210

Cataphractii + 1 Weapon Set: $75

Land Raider: Already Owned

Contemptor + 2 weapons: $80

 

Leaves you with $35 for shipping and/or an HQ choice.

[Grizwald23]

I would not start with breathers they arn't worth it rules wise and arn't wise for a starting force. Tactical squads are your best bet for your starting 2 troops choices.

 

You should get bundles because they save you money I would get a bundel of tactical marines which you can make 2 15 man tactical squads out off. I would recommend MK 2 or MK 4 for Night lords but you can go with MK 3 if you want. After that I would get a 5 man terminator squad and a weapons pack. I would also pick up the Preator pack and power weapon pack with what ever mark armor tac marines you get and that will take you to $420 plus legion shoulder pads but you can always get them later and them

[Armond]

So you think no Raptors?  Of course I can just delve into the Chaos Raptor Box I have at home and see what I can come up with.  Oh and thank you for the information about Terror Squads, I will have to update and adjust my fluff!  That was really helpful!

 

In that case though, perhaps it would be worthwhile to go with a single tactical squad set and do conversion work with the Cataphractii Chain Axes to create chainglaive.  When you say that the sergeant's can only take chainglaives, are you talking about the Terror Squad Sergeants?  Because the way you have it worded it looks like you could mean Breacher Squads too.  Just trying to make sure is all.  Breacher squads require 10+ I think right?

 

For the Cataphractii, what is the minimum unit size?  I figure if I can take them in units of 3+ or something I can use 3 of them for standard Termies and the other two to create two characters.  The Medicae and the Praetor/Champion.

 

So a CCW for the Contemptor would be a bad idea?  I just like that look and all.  I notice there are Contemptor Cyclone Missile Launchers.  My thing is, I need to fill a role, and you are saying the anti-air and anti-tank role needs some presence.  So many choices!

[Armond]

Is there a particular reason you believe in the MkII and MkIV over the MkIII. I think the MkIII looks more imposing. MkIV looks awesome as well, but I a decent fan of the MkII as well...

With thirty marines I could have two units of 10 and convert the remaining 10 to be 2 Terror Squads or one big terror squad.

The choices are starting to become endless!!!

I just wish you could mix and match some of the bundles to do like a half and half.

 

This is what I have with the Tac Bundle you spoke about:

 

Legion MkIII Tactical Squad Bundle

-Power Weapons, MkIII

-3 x Night Lords MkIII Shoulder Pads

 

Praetor HQ

 

Cataphractii Terminator

-Special Weapons Set

 

Night Lord's Land Raider Door

 

Total:  491.55

 

*This is a little more than I wanted to spend, but I do have the means to and am willing to shell out the extra 100.00.  This meets the 250 pound minimum to negate shipping. 

[Grizwald23]

I just picture them in more mk2 and MK4 beside almost all their artwork from the book beside one Breacher marine who was left to serve with a rouge trader wearers MK2 and mk4. Also I believe but I may be wrong though mk3 is a bit slower then the other MK and prone to over heat. Overall with the night lords I picture them as all having a wide mix of mk with in squads.

 

I also recomend maxing your tac squads out at 20 to benefit from night lord legion rules and arming your tacticals with ccw and bolters it's only an extra point a guy and gives them an extra attack. I also think the extra close combat weapon is very night lords

 

Oh an about forge world shipping to the us east coast it takes 2 to 4 weeks unless you upgrade your shipping then it's about 5 to 7 days. However I recommend always waiting to place orders till you can spend 250 pounds because you get free shipping and it's the upgraded express for free. Also what they charge you shipping is expensive is hell if you don't spend enough for the free shipping

[Armond]

Well then a question or two.  The terminator unit, what is their minimum size?  If I can drop the Praetor set, and just customize my own and convert my own characters, then I can also throw in a different Mk to throw a little variety in there. 

 

The bayonet/blade/chainbayonet that can be attached to the end of the bolter does just fine being counted as an additional close combat weapon? 

 

Yah, I noticed the FW shipping requirements for free shipping, which is why I am willing to spend as much as around 300 pounds or so.  Once you hit the free shipping it ups the priority to Express mail.

[Vazzy]

Ok, Terminators roll in squads of 5 to start and can go up to ten. I say go with MK III for the troops as it's the best( My Ultramarines are all Mk III) and you can do some kickass stuff with terror markings. I'd suggest dropping the Praetors and picking up a squad of Night Raptors to use as Characters and Independent Characters. 

 

But that's just me. 

[Moonstalker]

Raptors can take Chainglaives on every guy.  Otherwise, only characters and independent characters can take them, so your Terror Squad is limited to a Chainglaive only on the sergeant.

 

Breachers, Assault Squads, and Tactical squads are all 10-20.  Terminator and Terror Squads are 5-10.  Raptors are 5-15.

 

At 1500 points and playing 30k only, you could conceivably go ahead and skip any anti-air, and instead just try to rely on twin-linking, volume of fire, or luck to deal with the occasional flyer.  There isn't an equivalent of Necron Air Force or 4x Helldrake in 30k where you need a large volume of anti-air - but I like to cover my bases.  A Contemptor with a DCCW and your preference of ranged weapon would work out just fine.  The CML option is not available in 30k, but you can take a Havoc launcher if you want.  If you anticipate facing 40k opponents often or lots of flyers in your local meta, you might give more consideration to the anti-air coverage.

 

With Terminator Squads being 5 minimum and there only being Land Raider Phobos with 10 transport capacity, you can run into issues with getting your ICs into melee alongside your terminators.  Spartans have a lot more transport capacity, but getting one of those is going to eat up a lot of your budget and won't really be making good use of the Land Raider you have.  You could bring a Command Squad in Cataphractii Armor instead which would allow you to field some more chainglaives (all members of a command squad are characters and can issue and accept challenges, and the minimum squad size there is 3).  The 'drawback' is that they are more expensive and the normal terminator squads are scoring (but still elites choices).  To field the Command Squad will require that you field a Praetor, it cannot be chosen for a Centurion.

 

Personally, I think the tacticals are the better choice than the breachers for the core of your force, but I was trying to constrain my suggestions to your fluff.  In either case, one thing to keep in mind when it comes to 30k is that large squad sizes are incentivized by a high base price and incredibly low prices for adding additional bodies.  3 10 man tactical squads will cost more than 2 15 man tactical squads.  This is especially true for Breachers, who have an additional body cost on par with tacticals, but their base cast is significantly higher.  Minimum size Breacher squads are really bad bargains, I would either go big or not at all on that one.  However, if you're just trying to go for points dense, money light, then you will actually get more points (and fewer models) per dollar by getting the 20 Breachers for 128 GBP than the 30 tacticals for 160 GBP.

 

The Special Weapons kit for the Cataphractii squad might make you a little disappointed.  It does have enough options to outfit a terminator squad, but it's basically locked into 1 heavy weapon, 2 combiweapons, 2 twin LC, and a choice from 1 CF, 2 TH, 1 sword, 1 maul for the 3 guys that have ranged weapons.  I think it will make a squad that is expensive and perhaps not terribly effective.

 

The bayonets on the bolters should be just fine for representing an additional CCW.  I think that's largely what they're there for, in case you want to buy the extra CCW upgrade on your tacticals.

[Kol Saresk]

Yeah but using those Night Raptors fully loaded with Chainglaives can get awfully expensive points wise awfully fast. But a squad of fifteen with fifteen S6, AP3, Rending and +1W is definitely a killer.

[Armond]

Ok, I am currently making some adjustments to my fluff to fit the information given.

 

@Vazzy - I am a huge fan of the way MkIII looks, it just looks fearsome and I am picturing the different paint schemes I can do to them to  invoke terror.

 

@kitwulfen - lots of info there man.  I love the idea of the 20-man units, would just look nasty.  So in regards to the Command Squad, how would it be best to kit them out?  I know it would be more expensive, I but I am doing this for the "awe" factor.  So a Praetor with a 3-member Command Squad and maybe even a Primus Medicae all in Cataphractii could meet my need for a "bodyguard" for my commander.  And with the ability for them all to wield Chainglaives, I would be very happy...  Plus they would all fit in a Land Raider right?  Or I could just go with the 5 Cataphractii unit, just a matter of what to equip them with...

 

What the heck makes Terror Squads any better/worse than tactical squads?  Especially when only one of them can field the chainglaive.

 

Made some changes to my fluff composition while still remaining true to my intent for them.

 

@Kol_Saresk - ya, I think that would be a killer unit.  Pick an enemy unit, shoot them up a bit to reduce their numbers, and then shove the raptors into them for some nastiness.

[Moonstalker]

The Terror Squads get a higher base leadership (they're Ld9 throughout, fairly rare for Legion units), 2 attacks base, and they have Fear, Infiltrate, and Preferred Enemy (Infantry).  If they can manage to outnumber their enemy in melee, they'll do a pretty good job of just throwing a bunch of wounds at them (between the Preferred Enemy and the +1 on to wound rolls that they get for outnumbering).  And, given the kind of middling Ld values in Legion lists, they've got a decent chance of Fearing their enemies (ATSKNF is not a thing in 30k).

 

Praetor + Command Squad + Primus Medicae would make a pretty good unit to put in your Land Raider, and so long as the Command Squad is just 3 models they will all fit.  If they're all in Cataphractii armor, your options for outfitting them are fairly limited.  It might look something like:

 

Praetor

-Cataphractii Armor, Digital Lasers, Paragon Blade, Combibolter, Grenade Harness

170

 

Centurion

-Primus Medicae, Cataphractii Armor, Combibolter, Chainglaive

120

 

Command Squad

-3 Members, Cataphractii Armor, 2 Chosen with Chainglaive + Combibolter, 1 Standard Bearer with Combibolter, Chainfist, Legion Standard

155

 

Contemptor Dreadnought

-Kheres Assault Cannon, DCCW with built in Plasma Blaster

210

 

Tactical Squad

-15 Members, Legion Vexilla, Extra CCW, Sergeant with Artificer Armor, Meltabomb, and Chainglaive

265

 

Tactical Squad

-15 Members, Legion Vexilla, Extra CCW, Sergeant with Artificer Armor, Meltabomb, and Chainglaive

265

 

Land Raider Phobos

-Armored Ceramite, Frag Assault Launchers

280

 

Still 35 points to fill out before you hit 1500.  A few more, if you choose to go with a Chainglaive on the Praetor instead of the Paragon Blade.  You can fill those up with a different weapon selection on the contemptor, mastercrafting for one of the Praetor's weapons, combiweapons for the Command Squad, something like that.  But you're pretty close to a workable 1500 point list for the 400 USD you were aiming for.

[Armond]

That looks really awesome!  I love it, the chance to work with a variety of models will be very nice!  Also, I have that box of CSM Raptors I can use to convert into the Raptors.  I can work some chainglaives out, I have plenty of chain weapons back home in my bits box. I probably have enough bits to work out some conversions to fill out the rest of the Tactical Squad numbers.

 

You have been a great help man, I am really excited to look at what I can do...

 

Just need to make some adjustments and make sure my fluff/story fits what I am building.

And btw, is the Phobos the standard Land Raider pattern?

*Just did a price check with all the above needed items, we are sitting at around 541.00!  About 140.00 over my initial 400.00 self-imposed limit haha

[Moonstalker]

That doesn't sound quite right. The tactical set is 160 GBP, the Cataphractii + Power Axe set is 45 GBP, and the Contemptor should be 48 GBP. You'll need additional bits off eBay or somewhere (Frag assault launchers, skulls and poles and bats and wings and scary stuff for banners and standards, Deathwing narthecium, meltabombs, chainswordy bits and plasticard rod to make chainglaives for your sergeants), but that list as specced should be about 418 USD.

The Land Raider Phobos is the one with two TL Lascannon and a TL Heavy Bolter. The Crusader (the one with Hurricane Bolters) and the Redeemer (the one with flamestorm cannons) haven't been invented yet.

If we want to cut costs even further:

Praetor
-Cataphractii Armor, Digital Lasers, Chainglaive, Combibolter, Grenade Harness
150

Centurion
-Primus Medicae, Cataphractii Armor, Combibolter, Chainglaive
120

Command Squad
-3 Members, Cataphractii Armor, 2 Chosen with Chainglaive + Combibolter, 1 Standard Bearer with Combibolter, Chainfist, Legion Standard
155

Contemptor Dreadnought
-Kheres Assault Cannon, DCCW with built in Plasma Blaster
210

Tactical Squad
-10 Members, Legion Vexilla, Extra CCW, Sergeant with Artificer Armor, Meltabomb, and Chainglaive
205

Tactical Squad
-10 Members, Legion Vexilla, Extra CCW, Sergeant with Artificer Armor, Meltabomb, and Chainglaive
205

Night Raptor Squad
-5 Members, Sergeant with Artificer Armor, Meltabombs, Chainglaive
175

Land Raider Phobos
-Armored Ceramite, Frag Assault Launchers
280

You could build this with the aforementioned bits you'll require for standards and making your own chainglaives and such. But this should clock in at 401.10 USD/243 GBP... if you buy the Night Raptors from FW. If you just use the Raptors you already have it should clock in at 207 GBP/341.67 USD. This list is also 1500 on the dot.

5 Cataphractii 33gbp
Power Axe Set 12gbp
20 Tactical Marines 92gbp
20 Bolters 22gbp
Night Raptor Squad 36gbp
Contemptor Body 31gbp
2 Contemptor Weapons 17gbp

[Armond]

Well I need to hit 250gbp to negate the shipping costs, so I have to spend a minimum of 250gbp, or else I p ay a nasty amount of shipping costs.

 

My original shopping basket had the bundle with 30 marines which costs like 160gbp.  So taking that out and putting the barebones, but also adding in Land Raider Doors and the appropriate Mk Night Lord shoulder pads in there,  it comes out to 256.50gbp.  So $423.10 USD.

 

This is the inventory:

 

Cataphractii

-Power Axe set

 

10 x MkIII Tactical Squad

-10 Night Lord Shoulder Pads

 

10 x MkIV Tactical Squad

-10 Night Lord Shoulder Pads

 

Mk III Power Weapons Set

 

 

How about that?

 

20 x Phobos Pattern Bolters(I could always order 10 of one kind and 10 of another kind)

 

Contemptor Pattern Dreadnought

-CCW w/Plasma

-Kheres Assault Cannon

 

Night Lords Land Raider Doors

[infyrana]

Don't forget to add in the command upgrade pack (heads / backpack) as needed for vexilla and nuncio vox. I agree on mixing the bolters for sure, adds variety from the onset :)

 

Oops amending post, I thought you had written a pack of each special weapons for both armour marks...

 

I would reconsider the special weapon packs as you could use some of your own customising skills to make the vexilla and nuncio vox options without buying the upgrade pack, and depending on your weapon requirements, do the same for your sergeants power weapons too. It's not like you need lightning claws (warp talon boxset) or fists (any will do), or even power swords and the like at the moment. Just model one with the best of the armour pieces, add a little green stuff, pose or paint differently, and save 20 gbp on the power weapon sets. You could therefore flush out your tacticals more or buy the command set.

 

Magnetise the sergeant arms ready for future proofing if you do add a fist or something.

 

kitwulfen has been a great help to me as well, and I'm in the same process deciding on troops...

 

I would query the assault cannon, but I see you've written 'kheres', his original idea of the TLLC is probably a safer bet versus armour and for a future mortis if you magnetise the DCCW arm, or dual kheres for the future is just as nice.

 

GL :)

[ephrael]

Do yourself a favor and keep the MK III Power Weapon Set on your order.  The MK III tactical arms art the most difficult to convert into assault style and keep the extra armor intact.  The options in the FW set are worth the extra money just for all of the bits you will get in there.  

[Moonstalker]

Before you get too settled on that Contemptor loadout, I should mention that I chose some of it just because of what kind of bits are available on the FW website.  The claw-looking DCCW comes with bits for a built in graviton gun and plasma blaster.  The fist DCCW comes with bits for a flamer and a twin-linked bolter.  So, if you're looking to save points, prefer fist over talon, etc, you might rethink that particular choice.  The Kheres is kind of just all around good, its only real weakness is somewhat short range.  You can mow down infantry, rend AV14, spam shots at flyers/Rhinos, etc.  So, if you had a particular attachment to any of the other weapons available, there's some points there that can be shifted around.  Likewise, the chainfist in the Command Squad may not be entirely necessary with the sheer number of rending attacks that squad can throw around.  I was also figuring pretty heavily that you could GS/kitbash all the chainglaives you need from any chainswords you have on hand + the chainaxes + plasticard rod, and similarly for Legion Vexillas and the like.  Getting the special weapons pack would certainly seem to make that easier.  The Frag Assault Launchers on the Land Raider are also not entirely necessary as the Praetor has a Grenade Harness, so if you can't get the bits for that, you can drop that from the list pretty easily and sink the points elsewhere.

 

It's probably better if you can get your hands on a copy of the books to peruse the rules first and make your own judgements on all the little customizations you can do before committing to your orders/modelliong, but if you have more questions on what can be swapped for what or something, I can do my best to answer them.

[Armond]

Ok, let's see what I have going on here. 

 

@infryana - reading what Mikhail said in regards to your reply, I am considering keeping the MkIII weapons pack in there.  Why?  1, I like variety, and it seems it has it.  2.  I think he may be right about trying to customize/convert armor to match the MkIII set.  I do have a decent amount of experience doing some GSing and Converting, so I think maybe I can put together a lot of the accessories, but the sheer amount of options and pieces available would just be put to future use. 

 

Also, I think I have enough pieces/bits at home from various SM and CSM kits I can probably build up 10 marines to fill out the tacticals or brew up my own customized unit of Terror Squad.

 

@Mikhail - thanks for the insight, I think I want to keep the weapons set for more than just your reasons.

 

@kitwulfen - I again appreciate the immense amount of help.  I love the look of the CCW Claw for the Contemptor, it just looks so menacing.  It almost makes me consider running dual-claws with plasma.  What is the main difference between fist and talon though?  Have a pros and cons breakdown that could maybe give me a little more to go on?  I won't be making this order for another week or so, so I have some time to mull over things.  I just want to make sure they are waiting for me when I fly back to Texas on the way home.

 

Would the Land Raider kit I have work against air elements?  Twin Linked Las, or do they have no upward fire arc?  I like the idea that my army is focused on vanguarding, eliminating potential early warning threats, and closing with the enemy.  I think the LR fills that role in the latter part of the plan, closing.

 

You are right, I do need to get the books.  Those will end up getting ordered at a slightly later date, probably in time to meet me at home when I get back from this deployment.

[Moonstalker]

There's no rules difference between the talon and fist.  Which is a shame, because I think more varied rules for DCCWs would make melee dreadnoughts so much more viable.  Imagine having a sweep attack with the Talon that hits everything in base contact for the Dreadnought's strength, AP3, and shred.  Or, you choose to take the fist and get 2x strength, AP2, and armorbane.  And probably 3-4 attacks base, in either scenario.  I think it would help to restore walkers to their primacy in combat over freakin guardsmen with krak grenades.

 

But alas, it is what it is, and what it is is just normal DCCW with different physical appearance.  I thought the talon was more Night Lord-y, and then I chose a built-in weapon for it based on what options come with the talon from FW.

 

Dual Claws is doable, it's a free swap from the Contemptor's base ranged weapon to a second DCCW.  The Plasma Blaster is the most expensive of the built-in weapons, though, and costs more than the Kheres which it would replace.  If you've got a spare meltagun or two laying around, you might go dual DCCW, one with a built in meltagun and the other a built in plasma blaster.  The cost would be the same as what is specced now.  I will always have a soft spot for heavy flamers on dreadnoughts, though.  Mostly because of that scene from the DoW2 cutscene where the Dreadnought kool-aid mans through a wall, grabs a Howling Banshee, and roasts her.  Killing Xenos scum with fire always gives me a chuckle.  The heavy flamer bit only comes with the fist, though, and not the talon, but all avenues are open to you if you've got the bits and skill for a conversion.

 

ETA: The Graviton Gun that also comes with the claw could be a thing.  It's not like the new 40k grav guns, but it's still 18", haywire, and a 3 inch blast.  It makes the area of the blast template dangerous and difficult terrain for the next turn, as well.  Haywire might arguably be more useful than melta if you're fighting a lot of opponents that have armored ceramite on their vehicles.