I need some guidance, ForgeWorld

[Armond]

You  make some valid points, I would think that the claws would be a bit different than the fists.  But then this just makes it an even easier choice for me!  Any merits in mounting dual meltas for the claws?  It kind of fits my theme, Meltas being able to get through fortifications/walls and carve through vehicles as well.

[Moonstalker]

Well, meltaguns are meltaguns, no different from 40k.  With the Contemptor's BS5, you're quite likely to hit with both of them, but the big caveat is the availability of armored ceramite in 30k.  Of course, what you can't melta you can punch, and you'll be in range to start punching anyway if you're already in half range for a meltagun.  And as previously mentioned, you'll have to put together your own model for it, but that should be easily done with a couple meltaguns and some card.  Merits-wise... well, it doesn't cost much more, $-wise, than the other options, it fits pointswise in the list, and it fits your theme?  Seems like enough, to me.

[Armond]

Oh, but that every beautiful green/blue fire from plasma calls to me as well.  They really made it difficult, the Rule of Cool, I mean.

[Moonstalker]

Well, the good news is that I hear the Contemptor kit is fairly easy to magnetize.  You can start out with one loadout, and the weapons are priced reasonably enough that picking up a third option somewhere in the future won't be too troublesome.  I think it's less important that you decide now whether you want a dual claw with melta/melta, plasma/plasma, or melta/plasma, but that you decide if you want a claw and a ranged weapon or dual claw.  The built in weapon can be magnetized, swapped,etc to your heart's content after you've gotten it.

[Armond]

You sir make sense, for now it would be a ranged and a CCW just for the sake of covering a couple bases.

 

As I note, I just got an extra 100.00 to spend, so my new limit for purchase from FW is going to be 300GBP

 

Thinking of fleshing out the squads a bit perhaps.  Maybe a squad or two of MkII for even more variety.  Or perhaps I will go with just a pack of Raptors. 

[Molokai]

Use the extra cash to buy betrayal :)

[Armond]

Oh man, now that is a thought!  I wasn't even thinking!

 

But that would also mean I would have to reduce my expenditures elsewhere in my stuff!  Ahhhhh!

[Molokai]

Mines in the post as we speak. I had to put off some other purchases I wanted to make, so will wait a few weeks before I order again. But man, the reviews and comments on the book made it an easy decision. I say get it while you've got the spare cash. I dare say, you won't regret it :)

[Armond]

Screw it, I am just going to use my civilian clothing allowance to make a big purchase. I didn't have a Birthday or a Christmas this year, so ya, I am going to just buy myself some nice toys, I deserve damn it! I been gone for 6.5 month; 1.5 on training and deployment for 5 months, and I got another month to go....


Cataphractii
-Power Axe set

10 x MkIII Tactical Squad
-10 Night Lord Shoulder Pads

10 x MkIV Tactical Squad
-10 Night Lord Shoulder Pads

Mk III Power Weapons Set

10 x Phobos Pattern Bolters
10 x Umbra Ferrox Pattern Bolters

Contemptor Pattern Dreadnought
-CCW w/Plasma
-Kheres Assault Cannon

Night Lords Raptor Squad

Night Lords Land Raider Doors

Betrayal
Massacre

[depthcharge12]

Thank you for your service sir.

 

 

I'm glad I know my tax payer dollars are being well spent ;)

[Armond]

Order placed, hope it meets me in Texas on my way back from Africa!  Frickin excited! 

 

@depthcharge - no problem sir, it is an honor to serve, and I mean that to the fullest.

 

@heathens - like you said before, maybe now we can get that game in, I still have Chaos Marines sitting on the side while I work on these Heresy-Era Night Lords! 

 

@everyone - thanks for all the help, and thanks for being a great community of Marine-lovers!  I just hope I can do this right!

[Armond]

Below is what I am considering as my next purchase, more troops really and a little support in the form of autocannons and fast attack jetbikes.  This is 250GBP on the dot, thoughts?

 

Cataphractii
-Power Fist Set

-Special Weapon Set(just to make it to 250 GBP)

5 x MkII Tactical Squad (to fill out the previous 10)

5 x MkII Heavy Support Squad

- 5 Legion Autocannon Set
-10 Night Lord MkII Shoulder Pads

5 x MkIV Tactical Squad (to fill out the previous 10)
-10 Night Lord MkIV Shoulder Pads

- MkIV Command Upgrade Set

10 x Tigrus Pattern Bolters
 

Legion Scimitar-Pattern Jetbike Squadron

 

I am still following the fluff that my specific Company is an ADVON force, fluff link is in my sig.

 

@1000heathens - I really hope to get home, put these guys together, and get a game in as soon as possible.

[infyrana]

Certainly fills out your tacticals more, (15 man now?) with all the pads and bolters as needed, great variety in there too. I have been thinking about whether I need a pad for each marine, or just random models including characters and specials like vox carriers or sergeants etc, saving the pennies as needed to spend on more bodies.

 

Do you have an end goal with your Cata termies? I ask this just to make you think about both weapon options and transports and if the options fit each other. If you're tight on funds, it may well be that you only need one of the two choice sets of weapons at this time, and getting something else with the funds could prove more productive. (Magnets are always your friend of course)

 

Therefore, I would possibly consider skipping the 'extra' Cata termie weapon option at this time and perhaps either bulking out another squad of troops to 20, or AC's to 10, or a set of apothecaries for future proofing and assisting with 20 man squad survivability. Yes, I know the funds don't exactly fit, but it's a thought.

 

Know nothing on the Jetbikes, so can't comment, but they look great and understand why they'd be on your list. As an absolutely personal preference, I'd ditch these for a Sicaran (especially having seen a youtube clip of one painted up for Night Lords with all that added lightning)!

 

After spending some time looking at all those lovely Night Lord models via the multitude of threads, I'm very jealous I don't have the funds for a small unit and can't wait to see your army built and painted when the time comes.

 

As always, my comments are just my inexperienced limited view points based on my own musings following my current in progress project for a small DG legion list like yourself :)

[TheForgottenAngel]

List is looking awesome! My deployment was 12+months so I envy you air force guys! I think this guidance should be stickied to be honest. Lots of great information here for a decent 30k list on a budget! I look forward to seeing what you come up with! I would say once book 3 drops you will get more Nightlords stuff. I'm expecting the Terror Squads to have some WIP at the open day in march. You have a very solid base which you can add as money permits.

[Armond]

@infyrana - Well the Sicaran is a tough call, not because the model isn't gorgeous, but because he doesn't fit my Company.  Now I have really thought about the Termies, and you are right, I would need more transport capability.  So perhaps another time with them, maybe the Termies with a Spartan Assault Tank?  So I will probably shelve the Cataphractii entirely and go for more troops, it makes sense afterall.  The addition of Apothecaries would probably be advantageous as well, especially in those large squads.  I like your thought on buffing the Autocannon troops up to a much more devastating squad, afterall in my fluff I only have one Heavy Support Squad since the idea behind my Company is not one of
 
@Crusader_Weber - Hey hey now, funny thing about my deployment I am Air Force but I am in a Joint tasking, so I am hanging with the Army.  The Army, Navy, and Marine guys here that are actually part of this command only go for 3 months at a time, so I am actually pulling the long shift!  I certainly cannot wait for book three(I haven't even read book one or two!) to drop and for Terror Squad models to hit. 
 
Adjustment based on some sound suggestions.

10 x MkIII Heavy Support Squad
-10 Legion Autocannon Set
-10 Night Lord MkIII Shoulder Pads
 
5 x MkII Tactical Squad (to fill out the previous 10)
5 x MkIV Tactical Squad (to fill out the previous 10)
-10 Night Lord MkIV Shoulder Pads
-10 Night Lord MkII Shoulder Pads

- MkIV Command Upgrade Set

10 x Tigrus Pattern Bolters
 
Apothecary Set

Legion Scimitar-Pattern Jetbike Squadron
 
___________________
 
With everything altogether, this is what it looks like I have based on some posts previous made by you guys:

Praetor

-Cataphractii Armor, Digital Lasers, Chainglaive, Combi-Bolter, Grenade Harness

*This guy should be fun to model

Centurion

-Primus Medicae, Cataphractii Armor, Combi-Bolter, Chainglaive

*Another Night Lord I really look forward to working on

 

Command Squad

-3 x Members, Cataphractii Armor, 2 w/Chainglaives + Combi-bolters, 1 w/Standard +Combi-Bolter+Chainfist, Legion Standard

*I suspect I will be doing a bit of GS on these

 

Apothecaries

-2 x Members

*not sure on equipment, suggestions?

 

Contemptor Dreadnought

-Kheres Assault Cannon, DCCW w/Plasma Blaster

*I cannot wait to get this monster, ever since it came out I have wanted it.  Customizations will be made!

 

Tactical Squad

-15 x Members, Legion Vexilla, Extra CCW, Sergeant w/Artificer Armor, MeltaBomb, and Chainglaive

*So I could either move 5 guys from one squad to this one to make this one 20 strong, or just leave each one at 15?

 

Tactical Squad

-15 x Members, Legion Vexilla, Extra CCW, Sergeant w/Artificer Armor, MeltaBomb, and Chainglaive

 

Heavy Support Squad

-10 x Members, AutoCannons

*Should I split these into two units of 5?  It would allow for separate targets they could focus on.

 

Raptor Squad

-10 x Members, Sergeant with Artificer Armor, Meltabombs, Chainglaive

*With the box of Chaos Raptors I have at home, I should be able to create 10 of these badboys. 

 

Scimitar Jetbikes

-3 x Bikes

*Unsure on the equipment or loadout for these guys.

 

Land Raider Phobos

-Armored Ceramite, Frag Assault Launchers

 

*Also, keep in mind I have bits at home I can probably work on to create about 5-10 more bodies.  But it will take some more greenstuff work to make it conform to whatever mark I want it to fall into. I wonder how many points of stuff this amounts to!?

 

I am very excited to get home and work on all of this and get it on the table, hopefully to face 1000heathens and his wonderful creations!

[Adra'Melek]

A slight point on DCCW. I got a couple of Assault Claws and they both came with claws AND fists, and 4 weapon options rather than 2, including heavy flamer. Can't say if that's normal but it happened with both of mine.

 

Just in case you go the magnetisation route and CCW.

 

Just noticed you've already order the CCW. Was it the fist or claw? If fist it'll be interesting to see what it comes with.

[Armond]

Well that would be nice if it comes with both haha.  I ordered the Claw/Talon.  We will see what happens. 

[infyrana]

My DCCW fist came in November, and it only included the original Fist and two weapon options originally shown on the website - I think you got lucky :)

 

Everything that I read indicates a strong push to 20-man squads, so your additional home built 5-10 models would fill out your two tacticals to 20 man squads, with the two apothecaries, you will have your basics covered in true completed fashion.

 

kitwulfen would of course be far better at advising squad requirements, but have you considered the Augury Scanner if you face a lot of drop pod lists ?  Meltabombs on the Jetbike serg, I'd probably opt for Volkite on the bikes over plasma, just to make more use of pre-heresy weaponry.

 

The Spartan has more las cannons than a single contemptor would give you, and allows you to transport those additional Cataphractii models if and when you choose to go down that route.  I don't think many would say against the spartan, unless a fluff issue causes you concern.  It's a big and pricey model, but I'm sure it'll make an impact :)

[Armond]

It fits my fluff, there has to be some transport somewhere in there.  I have a Phobos Pattern Land Raider for the command, and having a Spartan for the future termies and some other squads(terror squads perhaps) for delivery would be fun.

 

I definitely want to get my two tacticals up to 20, it is in my fluff, plus it just makes tactical sense!

[Moonstalker]

 

kitwulfen would of course be far better at advising squad requirements

 

No I'm not.  I'm just a loud, opinionated jerk.

 

For the jetbikes, the squadron should come with (IIRC) 3 heavy bolters, 1 multimelta, 1 plasma cannon, and 1 volkite culverin.  Just go magnet crazy on one of the jetbikes and bring whichever seems best at the time.  From my limited experience with jetbikes, my vote is for the volkite culverin if you have to pick just one.  Volkites are pretty awesome, and it'll let you go ahead and spam volkite rays and heavy bolter shells at infantry without worrying that you're wasting your MM shooting at something not-a-tank (or having to get potentially too close to something with your expensive jet bikes in order to use said MM), and the randomness of plasma cannons does not fill me with joy.  I don't particularly like heavy bolters, either, for that matter.

 

Apothecary-wise, augury scanners are cheap and good.  Artificer Armor can help protect them from any precision shots and from some bombardment sniping.  Either is going to just come down to how many points you've got left after buying other things, because I don't think either bit of equipment is a requirement.  The weapon options... take them or leave them, I guess.  I wouldn't want him to ever end up in a challenge, so I'm not sure if the sword is worth it.  I guess if he is not in a challenge, then he could be putting the sword to good use on the enemy's rank-and-file.  The charger or combiweapon are kinda expensive, but he only has a bolt pistol for ranged combat and those weapons don't replace it - but they also mean he can't have an augury scanner, and I think the scanner is more important if you're taking anything.  There are plenty of bolter-holders in the squad already.

 

I would probably choose equal 15 man squads over a 20 man and a 10 man when it comes to your tacticals.  The point cost is the same in that situation, but it affords you with a little more flexibility (since each squad is equally capable and you don't have to worry about trying to preserve the understrength squad) and more meatwall for your sergeants/apothecaries.  Likewise, I would go with a single 10 man heavy support squad over two 5 mans, but because in that case it's cheaper/frees up a valuable heavy support slot even if it does cost you flexibility/may waste some firepower to overkill.  At the same time, if you have the extra points just sitting unused for your target point level, there's nothing wrong with splitting them to get that flexibility.

[TheForgottenAngel]

Yeah the 10 man would be focused hard core to get that relative threat to be neutralized. I agree with kitchen

Kitwulfen on the heavy support squads, heavy support is where HH gets much of its killing power. It's an ultra valuable spot. I'd put a power sword on your 15 msn squads of you have also given the rank and file ccw. It forces the opponent to think about charges. Even a power axe is a solid choice should a terminator squad assaults you! It's happened to me and the power axe paid for its points big time!

[Armond]

Ok, sound advice.  I made the second purchase today.  So everything I listed is what I will have.  Point-wise what do you think I have there?  I would do it myself, and I fully intend to, but the books are already in Texas, and I am still in Africa.

 

So ya, 2 x 15 man tactical squads, sounds groovy.  A single 10-man unit of Autocannon wielding Heavy Support should be fun.  Would a Master of Signal work well in that?  I plan on converting one up using the various bits and pieces I should have.  I mean BS5 Autocannon x 10 guys?  I am pretty noob at 40k/30k, but that sounds like fun.

 

I may skip the idea of the Primus Medicae and keep it at 2 x Apothecaries.  So basically I would have my Praetor/HQ in Termie armour choice, and he would be accompanied by the leftover Cataphractii Termies, 4 of them.

 

The jetbike idea is a sound one, magnets.  Also, in regards to magnets, what size are people using on their characters?

[infyrana]

People use all sorts of magnet sizes, it really depends how you do yours, there are plenty of guides.

 

I have personally been using 1mm deep by 3mm diameter width rare earth magnets for the arms and backpacks (to jump packs), and 1mm deep by 2mm width for the wrist (forearm to weapon) options.

 

With the new 40k tacticals and stern etc, it's easy to put one 2mm x 1mm magnet on the weapon option on the flat cut section of the hands' wrist, and then drill a 2mm hole into the forearm deep enough for two magnets (burying one inside, and having the remaining part of the hole able to securely fit the weapon and give it a slot for security).  I do the same with the shoulder of the arm using the 3x1mm, glue one onto the flat part of the arm, then drill into the flat part of the torso (refill with filler if needed, will need to with the hollow plastic torsos) and put the other magnet inside the torso hole, leaving a gap so that the arm magnet fits into the slot - locating the arm and preventing it sliding all over.  Takes some practice and consistency learning to get it right, but I've done 40+ marines like that so far.  Backpack magnetising is a bit difference, I don't recommend my way, but as I've started, I need to continue it - try something you like after doing the arms.  I'd take a pic if I was able to.

 

As for points of your order contents - if I can find some time later I might give it a go :)

 

kitwulfen - you have been a great help to me, with both my threads as well as everyone elses.  You may have opinions, but to some of us they are very much appreciated.  So please do take it as a compliment :)

[infyrana]

Ok, let me see how well I did.

For anyone more experienced than me (that's most all of you btw), please feel free to check my basic figures and validity of the list. Something I have not yet fully done.

Assuming the NL makes all Power Weapons into Chainglaives, then the following should be fairly right... lol

Night Lords army list Heresy

HQ:

Praetor
-Cataphractii Armor, Digital Lasers, Chainglaive, Combi-Bolter, Grenade Harness
=160

Centurion
-Primus Medicae, Cataphractii Armor, Combi-Bolter, Chainglaive
=120

Command Squad
-3 x Members, Cataphractii Armor, 2 w/Chainglaives + Combi-bolters, 1 w/Standard +Combi-Bolter+Chainfist, Legion Standard
=155


Elites:

Apothecaries
-2 x Members, Augury Scanner each, Artificer armour each. (made them identical, so change as needed)
=120

Contemptor Dreadnought
-Kheres Assault Cannon, DCCW w/Plasma Blaster
=210


Troops:

Tactical Squad
-15 x Members, Legion Vexilla, Extra CCW (for everyone), Sergeant w/Artificer Armor, MeltaBomb, and Chainglaive
=265

Tactical Squad
-15 x Members, Legion Vexilla, Extra CCW (for everyone), Sergeant w/Artificer Armor, MeltaBomb, and Chainglaive
=265


Fast Attack:

Raptor Squad
-10 x Members, Sergeant with Artificer Armor, Meltabombs, Chainglaive
=275

Legion Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron (did I miss something with "scimitar" bikes?)
-3 x bikes, 1x Volite Culverin
=145


Heavy:

Heavy Support Squad
-10 x Members, AutoCannons
=285

Land Raider Phobos
-Armored Ceramite, Frag Assault Launchers
= 280

Hope to help

Edit: Points values corrected for Apothecaries and Tacticals.

[Armond]

Wow thanks, looks like it totals to 2244. 

 

IN regards to the the "scimitar" that is just a reference to the pattern, it is still a jetbike.  I was thinking about taking the Primus Medicae and just making him the 4th member of the Command Squad, and then converting up a Master of Signal.  I don't necessarily need everyone that can with Chainglaives, but it fits the theme.  However I do recognize the need for an AP2 weapon or two somewhere in there to deal with pesky Termies and the such.

 

And thank you very much for the magnet information.  I plan on ordering some so I can do some equipment changes, specifically for the Sergeants and higher ranking guys.  Should be tons of fun *sarcasm* lol